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Comment by paxys | Hacker News Reader

A bigger question is – does it support mouse input? Because none of their demos showed it, and without it the headset is basically dead on arrival for any real work.

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> You’re able to place multiple apps in the real world space and can type with either voice or a virtual keyboard, but you can also use Bluetooth keyboards and trackpads, and with a glance at your Mac, you can use it on a large virtual display.

https://www.macworld.com/article/1940428/apple-vision-pro-de...

My bigger worry is how I would type, if that's at all possible. My assumption, like the sibling comment notes, is that eye tracking would replace mouse input.

And I'm not yet typing code by talking to a computer. Maybe AI will work for 'typing' by talking and using copilot or some similar tech, but I've yet to try that and am not that confident that software has caught up to allow me to navigate folders and files within a codebase, edit the code, restart any servers if that's necessary, test (run tests, or visit a page, or send a curl request), post a pull request, etc. All of the disjoint steps I need to do to work, which change depending on the task, would need to work confidently in a system like this for me to switch over. And if speech is the way forward, I think my wife is going to be pretty upset with me since I WFH.

You can pair a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, it was shown in the keynote.

If I'm just going to use this sitting at my desk, I'll stick with my monitor instead.

The beautiful part is that the headset makes any desk (at my apartment, when visiting parents, in the office, etc.) my desk, which is exactly the same every time no matter where I am. Without bajillion cables and with instantaneous setup time. And would allow me to not worry about the physical constraints of the surface and take up no actual physical space on the desk.

If you have no desk, are you putting the keyboard on your lap? Sounds fumbly.

I sit on a reclining desk chair, about 4 feet back from a 46" TV. I have a lap desk with a bluetooth keyboard and trackpad. Love it! I'm interested in trying this out, to be able to have a bigger screen, and to be able to take it anywhere.

That sounds fun. I do that from time to time, but it gets fumbly for me. You must have a better chair (or keyboard) if it's working for you. Also.. my TV isn't nearly 4k (or even 2k)

I did pick up a nice chair when some nearby offices were being vacated a couple years ago. I have used a decade-old Apple BT keyboard and trackpad. They're great (though the batteries have to be changed every month or so). My TV is 1080p, and I wish it were a bit higher resolution, for sure.

I have desks at home, work, at parents' house, etc. So i have a physical desk in all places to place a keyboard on.

The issue is that all those desks are different, and I am not carrying the same setup everywhere. I am not going to bring my monitors and cables and the rest on a flight to visit parents. Or if I am working from a hotel. And I am not carrying my entire setup every time i switch between working in the office or at home.

But just a headset + kbm? No problem, especially since consistency of the setup being the same is guaranteed, and the setup time is zero.

No worse than using a laptop in your lap would be.

That's why they aren't called laptops anymore. They're called notebooks. Because you're not supposed to use them on your lap.

The funny thing here is I often use a paper notebook on my lap (on a clipboard), but rarely use a laptop on my lap.

You can use a Bluetooth keyboard pretty much anywhere you can sit with it on your lap or a table in front of you. One might legitimately worry about looking like a huge dork in public, but for a lot of people I imagine there is a lot of appeal to a device that can throw up a virtual array of multiple monitors anywhere they want to sit down and get some work done.

Yes let me just rip the keyboard I carry with me out of my back pocket.

Well, you do you, but if I were using a headset like this as a laptop replacement I would put it and the keyboard in a backpack. You know, just like how I carry my laptop around today.

I actually carry a keyboard around with me in my laptop bag 'cause I think keyboards on laptops all suck these days.

But that's probably not the exact point you were making and yeah, I'm in the minority.

Just don't dismiss my corner case, por favor.

Well the keyboard I use everyday fits my pocket. I'd definitely use this with my keyboard.

Sure. But you can use a laptop on any table.

Or on my lap, for that matter, but it can't throw up a virtual array of huge monitors. Even the biggest laptops feel cramped next to my desk setup at home.

But my array of huge monitors has more resolution than 2160x2160 and multiple people can look at them at the same time without getting nauseous.

Your "array of huge monitors" is, I assume, not in any reasonable sense as portable as a laptop or a headset and BT keyboard. You're talking in circles.

That's fair. My monitor is a constrained space. If this headset is light and comfortable and can give me unlimited real estate without compromising on text clarity and resolution, I'd happily wear it all day at my desk.

Hey, I think that's fair too.

I've been coding from a couch for 6 years or so, this can be done.

If anything, this headset could use cameras to superimpose your fingers on keyboard if you can't memory type.

They're positioning this as a productivity product. You'll probably be able to just use a keyboard. Get ready to learn to type without looking at the keys I guess, but I think most people already can with only a few issues.

Imo most useful case for this is watching youtube in bed, I'd just keep a bluetooth keyboard/mouse on my nightstand.

"Get ready to learn to type without looking at the keys I guess"

Why wouldn't you be able to look at the keys? This is AR, you can see everything around you still, including a physical keyboard right in front of you.

I'd guess if they owned the ecosystem (headset and keyboard) they could make for very accurate "pass through" showing the keyboard isolated over the background (arbitrarily change the desk surface, or have a floating keyboard, etc).

Remove your hands from the keyboard for a bit and have it set to disappear.

You could do this with Immersed on a Quest 2 but you’re right the ecosystem is what will make or break that option.

Personally I hope there is no keyboard at all. Seems with depth cameras mapping your hands, eye tracking, perfect speech-to-text, and some user training you could do some cool stuff.

Even further, there are two downward facing cameras. I bet they restrict these (for privacy), but I wouldn't be surprised if they come out with something to help you see your keyboard via those cameras

Did you say porn? I think you meant porn. Not YouTube.

The demo I saw showed a guy at a standing desk, using a Magic Keyboard and Magic Trackpad. I remember I grimaced thinking what his shoulders must feel like typing with his hands so close together on that tiny, shitty little keyboard. It made me think of little T-Rex arms.

The keys on the magic keyboard (and therefore hand positions) are no closer together than on other keyboards. It just doesn't have the numeric keypad part.

If you want an ergonomic keyboard with a gap in the middle, any bluetooth keyboard will work with a Mac, iPhone or iPad, so I imagine it would with this too.

Seems like they mentioned t-rex arms which are characteristic of non-ergo keyboards, all of which are generally terrible. I really wish Apple would just make a better version of the Sculpt now that MS is out of that game.

They showed a demo with Bluetooth touchpad (and keyboard) input.

They mentioned the magic trackpad, so I can't imagine a mouse wouldn't also work.

Maybe they will sell you an iGlove )in the future) to go along with this so that you can type / click on your virtual keyboard & mouse

They've already made it clear that you can do that without a glove... (as well as optionally using physical devices instead).

I want it to work with the original NES Power Glove, or I don't want it at all.

I don't think that's self-evident. If the eye tracking is really good, it could obviate the need for a mouse.

Why would it obviate the need for a mouse? I can focus on something and expect my cursor elsewhere. Especially in games

5 minutes with an existing eye tracker will show that this is completely infeasible. Your eyes move too much for it to work.

Perhaps you could use it to bring windows forward.

Because any time you're doing fine-grained work with your cursor, you're looking at it. I'm not talking about games.

I can see where you are coming from but it doesn't make too much sense to me. Why can't we have both.

it seemed pretty obvious we do have both. It showed a "magic trackpad" being used. Seems like it supports pointing devices normally.

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