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Comment by lmm | Hacker News Reader

> As if banning phones until 13 is really going to have that kind of impact. Come on. Those poor kids, can't get on TikTok.

When did you first get access to a computer? How has that affected your subsequent life and career?

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Playing video games (mid 80s) from primary school, chatting online (mid 90s), relatively low mother tongue langage but still better than people 10year younger than me, totally failed studies and career far from my potential, but still not too chubby.

People thinking that an electronic device is good for a kid and it's just a matter of self control or parenting has a fairly strong biais and never spent time with a kid or forgot what is it to be one.

On the contrary, my experience of being a kid is exactly why I'm convinced this is good for them. As a bullied kid I'm pretty sure computer access literally saved my life, and I've consistently seen that the younger someone got on the internet the healthier their relationship with it is.

An escape from reality is far from a good solution. Although I also think that computer access is much better than a cellphone, I strongly believe that parental control is not the correct way, and need several layers of protections.

First one being, is your kid feeling safe enough with you to discuss any topics? I know I couldn't. I have seen way too many kids having already social media pressure, including my own kid with a fairly low level of screen time across the board (I'd say 4h-8h a week maximum including a movie on Sunday morning, depending if she wants to play around with python or some GT7) this allows also some interesting discussions.

> ve consistently seen that the younger someone got on the internet the healthier their relationship with it is

I fully believe that, for the previous generation's internet.

It's great that tech helped you when you were young, but one can't extrapolate here and apply personal experience more generally. The circumstances are vastly different. In some cases there will be kids that suffer from a lack of phone, but there's still computers, there's still video games, etc, etc. There's just no 24/7 cellphone addiction consuming every aspect of their waking day (and night, under the covers) to the exclusion of all else, and to the great detriment of their mental health.

>forgot what is it to be one.

Most adults seem to forget all their memories of their childhood, particularly if they become parents at which point they forget everything instantly.

I'm not sure why this is, what this phenomenon is called (if it has a name), and I would sincerely appreciate a scientific explanation if there is one. I still remember my childhood from about 4 years old onward as a guy in his mid 30s, so I simply can't relate to it.

Yes, I find that I not only can't easily recall what my own experience as a kid was like, I also reproduce a lot of my parents' behaviors.

Computers pre-social media were different. You could do a lot offline. Today, social media has been proven to be extremely toxic. There was a paper submitted to HN that mentions how much worse mental health is the earlier a child gets a cell phone[1].

Today children have unrestricted access to God knows what is on the internet and social media. This is not a recipe for success. Parents need to get involved.

[1] https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/sapien-smartphone-repor...

Had no internet access until 18 (mid-90s), No mobile phone until 22.

My physical and mental health has declined significantly since I've been 'always online'. Learning new skills in an age of endless distractions is harder too, despite the amount of educational resources online that should make it easier.

When I got hooked on WoW in my 30s, it was very obvious that there were a lot of students sacrificing their education to their gaming habits. And this was before social media really took off, with its 24/7 narcissism and tribal warfare.

Computers we had access to did not have ML generated crack being served by every app on them. Even so I had addiction issues, thank god this was before ML.

And no I did not have access to my parent's bar to drink vodka and brandy whenever I felt like as a 12 year old to "prepare me to real world".

What are the things you think can only be done on a smartphone, not a laptop, that are so important for kids to learn early?

Do you think these kids are going to get access to laptops?

But to answer the question: patterns of socialization that their peers will follow. How to work around surveillance and filtering. How (and why) to jailbreak locked hardware.

Patterns of socialization meaning what exactly?

People outside the no-smartphone group will develop specific ways of interacting, which you only "get" when you participate

Stuff you can't even know you're missing out, because you don't know what you don't know

Maybe calling someone without a heads up is considered rude, or ending sentences with a period is considered passive aggressive, maybe responding to someone right away is considered desperate or using certain words is okay IRL but not online

I agree that kids having smartphones is not good, but isolating an individual or small group from ostensibly the rest of the world in inconsistent ways that may interact in even worse ways is something you should be careful with, you might just be marking them for life

Computer != smartphone. Social media == smartphone.

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