Comment by 18744916 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 18744916 | Hacker News Reader

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It looks like this is part of a growing body of evidence that suggests that the risks outweigh the benefits of vaccination for young people.

It's also worth noting that the incidence of post-vaccination myocarditis (from this study; 1.08 per 100k people) is significantly lower than the 2014 rate of myocarditis: 8.6 per 100k people [1]. Additionally, the risk of myocarditis from a covid infection is signfiicantly higher than the risk of myocarditis from the covid vaccine.

That being said, especially since the danger of covid is much less for young people, and the risk of the covid vaccine causing myocarditis is much higher for them, there's a growing push to stop vaccinating young people against covid. I think the CDC continues to quash its credibility by trying to sweep this under the rug, rather than presenting the facts--that there is risk, and there's a cost-benefit analysis.

[1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05951-z [2]: https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.... [3]: https://openheart.bmj.com/content/9/1/e001957

> I think the CDC continues to quash its credibility by trying to sweep this under the rug, rather than presenting the facts--that there is risk, and there's a cost-benefit analysis.

If true, I don’t blame them. One thing they have learned this pandemic is the modern public doesn’t process nuance - see the usage of masks. If they broadcast this, a huge chunk of the population will think they should not vaccinate, COVID deaths will surge and more people died from COVID than vaccines induced myocarditis. Best to keep their mouths shut until more studies are completed and they have enough data.

> see the usage of masks

The modern public doesn't have patience for lies. The messaging around the masks was explicitly untruthful, as we now know. Once the public picked up on that, the CDC etc. lost the benefit of the doubt, and that got us to where we are now. What you're referencing is the effect, not the cause.

See ...

At the beginning it was "don't hog masks" because there was a shortage, it's effectiveness vs COVID was unknown, and healthcare workers needed them to do their job - it would be a problem if Nurse Nancy breathed additional germs onto Little Timmy who is already weaken because he is sick.

Later it's confirm that masks are effective vs COVID and the shortage has ceased so you should definitely wear them.

But to a good chunk of the public, context and nuance is completely lost on them.

>At the beginning it was "don't hog masks"

As gfodor said, this is an utter lie. The Powers that Be explicitly told us that masks did not help against COVID-19, then completely reversed itself and told us that everyone should wear masks while claiming either a) "We never said masks did not help against COVID-19", or b) "We said 'masks don't help' to avoid a shortage for medical personnel". Now, as geekybear and the_third_wave said, it seems like TPTB was right at the start, albeit for completely the wrong reason, but that doesn't take away the seriousness of the initial lie that led to more.

Just before COVID-19 became widespread in the US, I discussed with my dentist brother the advice media was giving about how masks wouldn't help. Hearing his skepticism about said advice was my first clue about how the media was being used to spread falsities about the epidemic.

No, they didn't just say that, that was the problem. They said that there was no evidence to support the idea that masks were effective against COVID-19. This is the usual weasel word approach of saying "there is no evidence" to support something to lead people to thinking there is counterevidence, which there wasn't. Once they started lying to people this way, it was over.

The proper messaging was: "we need to keep the mask supply up for medical workers if it turns out masks are effective in helping reduce their exposure. we don't know yet if masks are effective, they might be, and we are researching this right now as fast as we can. in the meantime, it seems prudent to assume they may help, and we ask the public to avoid buying masks for the time being while we increase the supply so our medical workers can have them."

> Later it's confirm that masks are effective vs COVID

This has never been proven in any real sense, certainly not enough to justify mandatory masking. Now that the smoke is starting to clear a bit it is becoming clear that "There is not enough evidence to suggest medical-grade face masks protect vulnerable people from Covid" [1] and that "There is just no evidence that they — masks — make any difference ... There’s no evidence that many of these things make any difference” [2]. A similar conclusion was reached earlier by an oft-cited Danish study [3] from 2020 so it can not be said that these are new insights. This also makes it clear that forcing people to wear masks was not based on scientific data and as such can not be justified as "following science".

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/face-masks-prote...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opinion/do-mask-mandates-...

[3] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

It's fact that masks help prevent the transmission of diseases that spread from the nose and mouth (and to my knowledge COVID is one of those) - that's why healthcare workers wear them; they have worn them for decades.

> certainly not enough to justify mandatory masking

This is the part that I don't get. People like you act like wearing a breathable fabric over your nose and mouth is some kind of huge sacrifice. Healthcare workers wear them everyday. The Japanese wear them whenever they are out and are sick with the flu/cold - some Japanese women even just wear them because they were too lazy to put on makeup that day. It's such a dumb thing to kick up a fuss over.

> It's fact that masks help prevent the transmission of diseases that spread from the nose and mouth

It's true for diseases with a droplet based spread, like the flu.

Disposable masks are good enough to catch the droplets people spray out when they sneeze or cough preventing them from falling onto surfaces that people will later touch and then touch a mucous membrane, infecting themselves.

All the early Covid advice was based on the false theory that Covid had a droplet based spread.

With a fully airborne disease, like Covid, you need something capable of filtering the virus out of the air you breathe. At a bare minimum, that would ba a n95 mask fitted so tightly to your face that unfiltered air cannot come in through the sides.

Perhaps you remember all the pictures online of medical professionals with with pressure sores from where the masks pushed into their face from 2020?

A disposable mask held on with two rubber bands over your ears simply isn't capable of preventing you from being infected by a virus floating in the air you are breathing.

>Two years after the pandemic began, we finally have a good understanding of how COVID-19 is transmitted: some infected people exhale virus in small, invisible particles (aerosols). These do not fall quickly to the ground, but move in the air like cigarette smoke. Other people can get infected when breathing in those aerosols, either in close proximity, in shared room air, or less frequently, at a distance. But the journey to accepting the overwhelming scientific evidence of how COVID-19 spread was far too slow and contentious. Even today, the updated guidance and policies of how to protect ourselves remain haphazardly applied

https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-conf...

Wasn’t the goal not to prevent infection, but instead to reduce the spread of the disease? If I remember correctly hospitals were overburdened at the time.

Also no I (personally) have not seen anyone have any sores or issues with wearing a mask, medical professionals, students, or otherwise.

If the goal was to reduce the spread of the disease, then the mitigations in place need to be based on what will be effective against an airborne disease, not what will be effective against a disease with a droplet based spread.

> no I (personally) have not seen anyone have any sores or issues with wearing a mask, medical professionals, students, or otherwise

We aren't talking about wearing a cloth mask, as those are ineffective. We're talking about wearing an n95 mask (or better), fitted tightly enough to your face to prevent unfiltered air from leaking in through the sides, and wearing it day after day. You end up with bruising and pressure sores.

For instance, here's the CDC guidence on how to know if your n95 mask is fitted properly.

> To conduct a negative pressure user seal check, cover the filter surface with your hands as much as possible and then inhale. The facepiece should collapse on your face and you should not feel air passing between your face and the facepiece

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2018-130/pdfs/2018-130.pdf

As far as Doctors and Nurses posting pictures of the results of properly wearing PPE day after day, they were all over the internet.

> Exhausted doctors and nurses post images of their bruised faces after long shifts wearing protective gear

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-health-care-bruised...

> Healthcare professionals around the world are sharing photos of their exhausted faces, sometimes bruised from masks, after harrowing shifts treating coronavirus patients

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-doctors-and-nurses...

> People like you act like wearing a breathable fabric over your nose and mouth is some kind of huge sacrifice

Well, yes, it is, especially when it is a symbolic gesture.

> Healthcare workers wear them everyday

And? Construction workers wear helmets every day, welders wear goggles, farmers wear rubber boots, blacksmiths wear leather aprons. The fact that some professions come with their own protective clothing and accessories does not mean those things should be forced upon the populace unless there is a very good reason to do so.

> It's such a dumb thing to kick up a fuss over.

If you are fine with being told what to do without justification, fine, that is your right in a free society. I am not fine with being told what to do without justification which is my right in a free society. I do not claim you should not wear a mask if you want to do so, by all means wear one. Just don't expect me to do so without a clear cause.

Ah, yes. Account created 43 minutes ago.

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