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Comment by AH4oFVbPT4f8 | Hacker News Reader

I learned this the hard way nearly many years ago. Sold an item via eBay, customer paid via PayPal. PayPal accepted the funds I shipped the product and thought all was well until PayPal takes the money back saying the customers card was stolen. So then I was out the item and the money. I don’t keep a cent in the account for a second longer than I have to now.

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When you accept Paypal payments, you are accepting credit card payments. Credit card payments can easily be reversed. For the payer this is a feature, and for the payee this is a risk.

So this doesn't sound like a Paypal-specific issue. The same could have happened if you accepted credit card payments through some other entity like Square.

> When you accept Paypal payments, you are accepting credit card payments.

When you accept Paypal payments, you get no access to the customer's credit card information or identification. This is either a legal interpretation that allows Paypal to push all of its risk down to its customers and make money for nothing, or the actual law is explicitly allowing Paypal to push all of its risk down to its customers and make money for nothing, but either way it's corrupt.

Yes and no. PayPal and eBay are both notoriously “buyer-biased” - meaning the chance of a buyer dispute being resolved in the seller’s favor is basically none, while with a normal credit card, it’s possible for a seller to win if you have good evidence. It’s guaranteed that if you buy a laptop, even from a seller with a great reputation, and send them a picture of a box with a brick that supposedly was delivered, PayPal and eBay will both rule in your favor. They can afford to completely burn sellers like that (who may not even have a viable plan B) more than they can afford word catching on among consumers that you can simply lose your money to fraud on the platform.

Note that AH4oFVbPT4f8 said that the claim was that the card was stolen. Evidence from the seller that the item was really shipped is not going to matter in such cases. So I don't think this is specific to Paypal or Ebay.

With paypal as long as you ship to the paypal address and have proof of delivery you are covered under seller protection. Most other credit card processors don't provide this.

> you are covered under seller protection.

I’m probably wrong, but doesn’t seller protection only protect you from PayPal disputes? i.e., not bank-initiated chargebacks and fraud reports.

Seller protection does cover bank initiated chargebacks for fraud/charge not recognized and item not received. As long as you have proof of delivery to the address provided through PayPal.

It wouldn’t cover item not as described, like a buyer saying you shipped a box of rocks.

Always ship via US mail if possible, as then it becomes mail fraud which is a federal crime. You probably can't get anyone to investigate though.

Wouldn't it already be wire fraud?

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