Hacker News Reader

Comment by meowtimemania | Hacker News Reader

We've tested housing first programs in SF. https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1659972231328583680?s=20

25% died (overdose on drugs), and 21% returned to the streets. We need to recognize that drug addicts don't make rational decisions for themselves. We shouldn't leave them on the streets to do drugs, we shouldn't give them free housing to do drugs, we should put them in rehab. If they don't want to go to rehab, charge them with possession of illegal substances and put them in a prison rehab system. This type of life crippling drug addiction shouldn't be tolerated.

I recognize that not all homeless are drug addicts, they should be supported in a much different way than we support drug addicts.

View on HN

>25% died (overdose on drugs), and 21% returned to the streets.

How many of those 25% would've died on the street? Do you have any numbers to put that into context?

A 54% reduction in homeless on the streets sounds like a great start to me, though, as do people dying in a room instead of on a sidewalk.

Rehab might be one of the least effective solutions of all [0]. If it's inpatient then you are paying for housing anyway, but without any of the benefits of stability that would allow someone to use it as a springboard to get a job.

[0] https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2018/02/15/opioid-treatment...

The rehab is just the first step of a successful housing first solution. The homeless should not be given homes until they are sobor. Once the rehab is complete they get housing as long as they stay sobor. If they can't they get imprisoned.

> 25% died (overdose on drugs), and 21% returned to the streets

You are cherry picking statistics

Housing first has been shown over and over again to be a better solution than expecting people to recover their lives before they get any help

What are your counterfactuals? How many die with no help?

Where do those numbers even come from?

Basically I am calling this out as disinformation. Lies

This is a good article, with his cherry picked stats:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2022/san-francisco-sros...

Housing First is clearly the best strategy to solve homelessness, but it should not be confused with Housing Only, which the article has plenty of examples of.

Using a mismanaged Housing First program to argue against Housing First is also borderline absurd, I agree with you there.

I'm quoting a tweet from the president of Y Combinator. I'm not against giving people housing, but I think there needs to be a sobriety requirement. Why would putting someone in a house cure them of their addiction? Put them through rehab, then give them a house when they leave rehab.

They use drugs because they live on the streets.

Treating a symptom instead of the cause is stupid, especially if the symptom (drug use) will likely return as soon as they return to the streets after rehab/prison.

> They use drugs because they live on the streets.

Have you ever used drugs? Drugs are fun. Until they aren't anymore, then they cause problems, like becoming homeless. That drugs are mostly just a symptom of homelessness is such a weird assertion that keeps getting tossed around.

This person likes doing drugs and has no intention to quit: https://archive.ph/wnTq6 But she'll happily take all the free stuff you want to give her. I'm not saying this is every homeless person. But let's not pretend like it's none of them either, and create policies accordingly.

I'm all for housing first. But there needs to be a filter imo to pick only the people with an actual chance of success (which so far turns out to be a pretty low % in LA's program, but still great for those people and I'm all for it).

Also there has to be some consideration for the working/lower class people who live in these neighborhoods. If the people making the policies and those making loftiest arguments online actually had to live amidst all the chaos, I think we'd see a very different approach.

A lot of them uses drugs because they are mentally ill, and this is their way to cope with it. People that aren't dangerous to anybody but themselves would not get treated involuntarily, and they would not follow voluntary treatments because drugs are easier. Living on the streets is a consequence too - it's hard to hold a job while being mentally ill addict, it's hard to pay rent while having no job, and it's hard to follow any rules framework which would be in place for a housing solution while being all the above.

I'm not arguing that the homeless should only receive housing, I'm saying that any other help you give them likely won't help unless you provide housing.

And that help should include mental healthcare and a support structure.

The social culture in our society (and especially in circles that would be implementing the support structure) leans heavily towards "it's not your fault, you are magnificent, you do you, there's no consequences whatsoever whatever you do". This approach is not going to work for the vast majority of these cases. There would be consequences, but since the "support" people will refuse to be the bad guys and implement the consequences, the consequences will come in the form of these programs turning into disastrous nightmares - just as various "housing hotels" turned into disastrous filthy drug-filled rat-infested nightmares. Throwing billions at the problem might provide a nice income to a number of GONGO staff and make them feel excellent because "they are doing something", but otherwise will not do much.

Parent didn’t suggest returning them to the streets after rehab. They said give them free housing after rehab.

That being said, addiction is not easily cured with or without free housing, if the substance of addiction is easily available nearby (alcohol, drugs, casinos) without additional support systems.

This is completely naive. They end up on the streets because of drugs. I’ve had friends from my youth and young adult life end up this way.

Drugs put you in a place where you prioritize getting high over paying rent. And so it goes.

In many cases the drugs came before the homelessness.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com