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My new car has lane keep assist and AEB and I haven't had these issues. From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation (mine is Hyundai, who for various reasons seems to have a bad reputation in North America but a good one in Australia). For the lane keep assist I feel a nudge but it's extremely easy to overcome just through a normal grip on the wheel - if I don't budge it won't move. It's been an issue near construction sometimes but also some wider merges where 2 lanes become one (the markings in Canberra seem to confuse it, but not Sydney) so it does depends a lot on road conditions, but as I say it's annoying at most and I wouldn't call it dangerous in my car and it helps more than it hinders.

For AEB, the same system is used in the adaptive cruise control and it's been near perfect. One funny thing was that it just alarmed and fully died in outback Victoria - apparently it is coded to do this as a fail-safe if it hasn't detected a car for a long time due to the system potentially not working. The service centre employee said Hyundai are working on a patch to extend the timeout since it's a little low for country Australian roads (approximately an hour at the moment I think).

Hyundai had a not so great reputation in the early 2000s in the US. In recent years however this opinion seems to have shifted.

Been driving an Ioniq 5 2023 for a couple months now with no phantom/emergency braking issues. I'm not in love with the performance of the lane keep without being on an HDA2 marked highway. I have to fight it just enough for it to not be useful on certain well marked backroads.

Considering tossing in a Comma 3 to give no-hands driver assist a shot.

Hyundai has been having engine failures, would not recommend as experienced spontaneous engine failure on a less than year old car. Check consumer reports or source below.

“In 2020, NHTSA announced civil penalties for the companies—totaling $210 million—for not recalling vehicles in a timely manner. In 2021, a whistleblower who provided NHTSA with information that led to those penalties was awarded $24 million, the agency’s first-ever whistleblower award.”

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why...

The Ioniq 5 is an EV, can't imagine the engine failures on their ICE cars will have any effects.

The engine failures are mostly for combustion, and have resulted in multiple deaths, including nearly my own.

Comma 3 is s the best, to be honest. Due to CAN-FD on Ioniq 5 the setup is a little bit more complex, but this is the best experience, though they are still working on their own AEB implementation.

Hyundai had terrible engine and transmission problems in the 2010s. A local dealer was offering 20 year warranties to get them off the lot. There was a Reddit post of a 300k+ Kia that had gone through something like 7 engines and 4 transmissions. They basically 4 new cars worth of engine and transmission parts.

They have great styling that’s comparable to German cars. I wish the US automakers could take some hints. From what I’ve heard the Genesis lineup is very luxurious.

If you use single pedal mode watch out for your lack of brake lights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YW7x9U5TQ

Maybe also it depends on the type of traffic and local driving habits and what saves your life in one city or country could kill you in another. The thing is, I’d rather have it disabled and not save lives but also not take any by default. It will surely improve over time and if it becomes flawless sure, I’d take it. The thing is that I don’t wan’t to be beta testing with my life or my passengers lives.

In cases where it’s not possible to disable the feature we better constantly record the car from all angles to have it as a proof against the manufacturer in case something goes bad. Near accidents caused by buggy software should not get a free pass, but require the manufactuter to fully reimburse you or pay you some serious fine.

Definitely. As a New Yorker now living in the Deep South, it’s night and day. All of those features are off (including traction control) in the northern cities. You need to be on your toes in nyc especially.

But in the south? Not a single one of the original poster’s complaints are valid here with the exception of cars who cut you off and then speed away (no need to slam on the brakes, cruise control). Personally, the early brake warning has saved someone else’s property at lease twice.

I'm familiar with NYC and North to South Carolina traffic. The only time I have had issues outside of the city was on a drive up to Montreal, where the lane assist misread the lane shift on potentially icy road. Wasn't happy about that one, but it was easy to overcome. I've never had an automatic braking incident outside of NYC that I can recall.

> From what I hear it's very much to do with a maker's implementation

Right, if I had to condense my issues into something more constructive it is just that: if regulators want to pursue a mandate for these systems, they should also work on establishing testing criteria and specifications that cover the many different conditions drivers face and reduces variation between manufacturers as possible. Not an easy task.

To give a quick example: another commenter in this thread states that lane assist only kicks in at 35mph. That is true in some models but not all which could lead to some nice surprises. Further, the speed limit in NYC is 25mph so it's not unusual if the road surface is decent to be cruising closer to 30. Unless there's a threshold for activation, you might be walking a fine line between "safety on"/"safety off" and any resulting corrections it might make.

Automaker implementation and the chosen hardware to do the implementation on. Meaning that, for example I drive a Honda which has a camera and a radar. The camera is for lane assist from what I gathered and the radar for ACC and AEB.

If I accelerate into traffic and get close to a car while accelerating, it will start flashing a warning light and if I still don't stop accelerating or braking, it will intervene, but if the other car accelerates it doesn't do anything. So the radar setup is quite well done and it gives very few false positives.

The lane assist system is a bit bad though because once it identifies the lane markings it does not take into account potential hazards that want me to change a lane or exit it for a few seconds to avoid road hazard lights or something similar.

The point I am trying to make is that there should be a high standard to what drives the AEB and it should not rely on cameras, which seems to be what automakers want to implement driving assisted features to save on more advanced tech. And somehow I don't think they're gonna pony up for high-speed cameras that can replace a radar at accuracy.

Maybe the intention is good, but most likely the implementation will suck.

Alternatively, it should have a wider field of view and if nothing is obviously very wrong let the driver move the wheel around without intervention.

Yes, *near* perfect is the correct word. Anecdotally, in a 2021 Hyundai, I do get random AEB warnings in the city mostly when merging into fast-flowing traffic.

Thankfully it is possible to have the system set to beep only as slamming on the brakes while merging is an experience everyone wants to avoid.

Also, it sometimes panics when coming to a stop on an incline with a car ahead. I guess it is unable to account for the fact that the car will stop by itself just because the road is going uphill?

I'm not sure how exactly it works, but for my Hyundai at least it doesn't seem to be "you will hit this if you do nothing", the alerts generally pop up if I'm actively accelerating. Maybe if I got closer it'd kick in, I've just never heard the alarms when I'm already slowing down (but should be doing so faster).

I know mine is camera-based. The car does not have adaptive cruise control, so no radar, just front parking sensors - but those are probably just used for the "the car ahead of you has started moving!" warning, which is the exact opposite of AEB.

Ah OK, in my car AEB and SCC ("Smart Cruise Control" as they call it) are the same sub-system - when one broke due to the no-input fail-safe, so did the other. The radar is behind the badge and works in tandem with the camera I believe.

By the way, no adaptive cruise control does not always mean that there is no radar. Some car still keep the radar and use it for AEB, but have ACC disabled I’d you do not purchase it when configuring the car.

Driving a Hyundai hire in Sydney with lane keep and aeb was the thing that eventually convinced me to upgrade the 4x4 to something with these features. Driving a hire Subaru with the same features around Sydney was what convinced me to drive a few more and observe who had good implementations, and who poor.

Recently upgraded to a Chinese ute. I've about the first 1000km driven now, and whilst it's occasionally made some mistakes, if my hands are on the wheel it's easy enough to just stay the course and it let's me do as I wish. I can also turn all the setting to off at the touch of a button and make that the default too. I quite enjoy having these features because they have been implemented well.

I have a Mazda too, I can confirm GP statement regarding lane assist... in many areas but not all:

- when it works it works so well the car basically drives itself esp. when you throw cruise control into the mix (this includes auto coasting + breaking)

- when it doesn't it's bouncing across the lane + applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking

I did not have any issue with emergency braking (never triggered, any situation where it would have triggered got handled by the driver first), but I did have a few (light) phantom braking events in cruise control.

Not related to lane assist control (uses a separate mechanism) but I did have issues with blind spot alert, it was randomly alerting regularly when no car was present. Mazda identified the cause as winter tyres throwing the sensors off. A software update is supposed to fix that but we disabled the feature so it'll be done on the next scheduled maintenance.

> applies too much resistance when attempting e.g overtaking

It doesn't turn off when you indicate to change lanes? It does on the Hyundai.

I have a Mazda and don't have any of the issues the commenter has including any type of resistance when changing lanes.

Mine does too (Volkswagen) but it's been my observation that most people don't indicate to change lanes.

But I often see them used as an "apology blinker" (when they turn on the indicator after they've started to change lanes or turn).

Makes me laugh every time. I mean, at that point, why bother with the signal at all?

Generally it does at least in my US model. "The system is set to avoid unnecessary alarms if the system detects the vehicle behavior is intentional judging from the operation of the accelerator or turn signal." from https://www.mazda.com/en/archives/safety2/active_safety/las/

There are still scenarios where it can be an issue, for example when you need to "peek" through the lane to see if an overtake is possible safely. In this case it requires driver judgement on when to activate the turn signal. You may activate early or when committed, I don't think either is necessarily wrong.

I don't know the other commenter's scenario but don't doubt what they described. To pull another example out of my hat: bendy mountain roads (e.g. western Connecticut, minimal elevation changes), car ahead is moving slowly due to lack of power, heavy load, etc. Assume driving conditions and road lines are clear, no camera or sensor obstructions. The system is automatically active while following the bend and will attempt to keep on course. As you approach a rather wide curve (lanes are also widened, with extra shoulder) it is an opportunity to ride closer to the centerline in order to see past the vehicle and overtake. If you do that without putting on your blinker first, the system will attempt to correct while you're in the turn. Depending on how you react this can be jarring as the wheel is vibrating and you have to decide whether to commit to let the system correct, correct the correction, or commit to the overtake.

I chalk this up more to my own lack of familiarity with the system early on and not a defect per se. The wheel vibration is a very odd sensation to me on turns likely because on older cars I'd start to worry about tires or mechanical issues.

Bad North American repurtation comes from dealer network afaik.

It came from cheap unreliable cars they made in the early 90's. Those things were through away vehicles. By the early 2000's they were just cheaply made(material wise) but reliability has improved vastly.

If you haven't already done so, please file a formal safety defect complaint with the NHTSA with details on that bridge incident. Once the regulators receive enough similar complaints they will open a formal investigation and potentially issue a recall.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

Good one, not in the USA but I will do this here in NL with the equivalent service. It never crossed my mind so thank you very much for this option.

is there a similar service in NL or Europe? NTSHA is really an institution that's lacking in the EU, the recalls and safety bulletin are a feature I would like to see in the EU.

Good idea, thanks for the link!

Bug reports filed through NHTSA?

I also had a very similar experience with lane assist trying to send me straight into a cyclist. Had a newish rental car with lane assist for a day and didn’t even really notice I had lane assist until driving out on a country road in California. Cyclist was up ahead staying nicely in the right of the lane and no one was around so I was giving him plenty of room driving to the left until the lane assist kicked in and pulled me rapidly almost straight into him. If I didn’t have a firm grip of the steering wheel it would have been much more dangerous. I feel bad for him as he was probably fearing for his life and thinking I was a horrible driver…

I had AEB trigger going through a mini-roundabout in rainy weather as another vehicle was yielding to me. I also had an AEB alert when fresh snow was flying off the front grill just after I started driving for the day. This is on a 2021 Sorento.

Oh, the Mazda lane assist and lateral collision thing from the side mirrors I found very weird. We rented a MX-30 at one point and were driving on the highway, used the signal to change lanes and mysteriously it decided that there is a car on the other lane (there wasn't) - warning in side mirror, and nudged the wheel and refused to change lanes. It was so weird having the car not allow me to do something because of a "ghost" it saw. Even with our current car, which is not a Mazda, had 2 small incidents in 3 years. One at night while it was raining the front collision warning started beeping, no break though (nothing in front, except rain) and then again, which was a bit dangerous, on the highway on a sunny day, no one in front, somehow I suspect the camera system thought the shadow of an overpass was a car maybe and decided to break all of the sudden (with ACC on), luckily there was no one behind us, but still, was a bit scarry.

> somehow universally implemented across manufacturers... maybe.

They'd need to be implemented and then turned off for 15 years until 99% of the old cars are off the road and then flipped on simultaneously for every car.

If a car suddenly breaks then the car behind it better be able to suddenly break too.

The need to suddenly brake is not a new phenomenon. Cars without AEB can achieve it the old fashioned way. The driver applying the brake.

The AEB in my 2015 Volvo applies some extra force to the brakes which exceeds just pushing the brake pedal all the way down. Also, according to Volvo statistics it seems that half of all drivers who hit another vehicle from behind do not brake at all prior to the collision. So no, they won't achieve it the old fashioned way all the time.

That sounds like there is a lot of commonality between the two cases that I had and the ones that you have experienced. My car was a Mercedes Benz C class July 2014 issue. The AEB relies on a lot of gear supplied by Bosch (I dug into it a bit to see if it could be disabled without surgery but that wasn't possible). Maybe Mazda has the same unit? (it sits behind the front license plate and there is a camera behind the windscreen).

I'm not sure of the exact sensor. There is a little more info on it here for example (https://www.mazdausa.com/static/manuals/2021/mazda3/contents...) but I can confirm the sensor placement is the same behind the windscreen, the lower one I think is by the badge. I wish they'd just made dashcam a standard feature instead and forget about trying to throw me through the windshield for shits and giggles.

Ok, looks like a different sensor then, the MB unit uses Radar and optical.

> I wrote up a long comment that got scrapped by my focus filter

I've been making productive use of the "textarea cache" extension lately. Sites and browsers lose text a lot more often than they should.

The B in AEB stands for “braking”, not “steering”, so I don’t understand what system you’re referring to that would steer into cyclist traffic

Lane keeping assistance, from the context.

Lane-keeping should only be active with cruise control active. You shouldn't be using it in city traffic, ever.

Automatic lane-keeping assist is generally turned on at all times with modern cars.

Interesting; when did this happen? From my experience, ~2017-era cars had it only as part of cruise control.

Keeping it on at all times sounds like a terrible idea for cars used in the US, because it's a developing nation with extremely poor road quality. In developed nations, it's probably OK because you can count on the road markings being good almost everywhere, but not in the US.

I think it only turns on above certain speed and yes, it can get easily confused by various road imperfections.

But yeah, you need to make sure there is a physical button on the steering wheel or somehere on the dashboard to easily enable/disable it. Otherwise it can be annoying.

It’s not in either 2023 model year vehicle I own, but I have seen it on full time in another. But I have never seen it active below speeds of about 35mph (i.e. most city driving)

My 2017 Pacifica (built in 2016) has lane keeping on by default without cruise control. I'm pretty happy with its light touch, so I wouldn't expect it to really move me out of the de facto lane into the lane it senses, but it could try. I'll manually turn it off for snowy roads, but otherwise let it do it's job of supervising in case the human screws up. Otoh, other vehicles may have a stronger correction, or my least favorite where they just beep a lot.

It is on by default in my 2020 Mazda3. After giving it (and all the other safety features) a chance for several months it's muscle memory to flip off all safety features during city driving. Thankfully there's a single button that does that, just left of the steering wheel.

>focus filter

I’m more interested in this

Just https://heyfocus.com which I must have installed through Setapp, as I don't remember paying for it. It has a scripting capability so in theory I might be able to do something to prevent it from triggering when I'm active in a form.