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Comment by donnfelker | Hacker News Reader

A fitness community. This could be either a BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) place or even a CrossFit gym. I've done both and while I'm not here to promote CrossFit, I am here to say that a group fitness class is awesome for meeting other people and finding a community of people that do something similar as you, but have absolutely nothing to do with your work.

I workout with Police officers, Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Stay at home moms, Accountants, Students, other tech folks, etc, you name it they're all there.

There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade. That turns into a community where you start to hang out with them out of the gym/etc.

This happens at any group fitness place where the same people show up at the same time to do the same thing. It's natural, organic and freeing.

I've moved across the country 3 times now and this is how I integrated into each area I moved into.

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Yup. I joined a climbing gym. Hanging out with a lot of people both older and younger than you is refreshing. Not much shared misery though when it comes to climbing, always had a blast.

100% climbing.

I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.

It's hard to have an ego when just about everyone gets outclimbed by 12yo girls, and the best climber in the world looks like someone who got fired from a big tech company because he looked too geeky: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web16f/newswire-ondra-dawn-wall (and I love that even he failed to replicate Lynn Hill's "free climb The Nose in 24 hours" - apparently even Ondra needs to practice Changing Corners).

Also, bouldering in particular is such an intellectual pursuit. It's problem solving under physical pressure, and forces you to think hard about the geometry of your body and how weight works etc.

> I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.

In my experience you see this quite a bit in BJJ as well. I wouldn't say it's nearly as diverse as climbing, but it's definitely not all young athletic men. My son's classes were about 4:1 boys vs girls, and the adult classes had fewer women. But I got to experience being choked out by a 70 year old man and a 16 year old wizard on the mats. There were all sorts of fitness ranges, but typically those improved rather quickly for the folks who stuck with it. We only had a couple guys who I'd put in the religiously works out strength category. Those guys are legit scary when you know they have the same skills as the skinny 70 year old who just put you through your paces and can also just physically twist you into a pretzel on top of it just through raw strength. All were super friendly and inviting to new folks though.

> I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.

You know, people say this a lot about "typical" weight lifting focused gyms, but I've found nothing but the opposite. There are certainly some people who are in there that are judgy (the are everywhere) but the vast majority are either there to do their workouts and leave, or are very friendly. And I've done most of my training in gyms in Manhattan and Paris, two places not known for friendly people.

Totally agree. I think this is just the insecurity of the person who thinks this.

If you go to the same gym you are already in-grouped. It is the insecurity of the new person who would think they are out-grouped.

Meatheads love new lifters. No one showed up at their first gym 230lbs and ripped. Even the biggest guy in the gym can relate to being the intimidated new lifter.

The only difference I would think between a gym with weights and a climbing gym is that the people at the climbing gym look less intimidating.

Love it - yes. You have to remember that everyone started somewhere. It took time and lots of work!

Completely agree. I lift regularly and do not look like a typical gym junkie but have found most people are very friendly - even in NY (burbs) where you expect a certain get out of my face attitude.

Also - weight training is also a highly technical problem-oriented discipline. You can do it for years and still not have things working the right way. The techniques are evolving as well. So - lots of problem solving and discovery.

FYI - one of my favorite sites of all time and certainly the technical view on things: exrx.net

100% agreed. I'm in Boston, and same thing. And I've been into bodybuilding for around 15 years now, dad was a bodybuilder and gym owner, etc. and there are still guys younger (and older) than me who are way bigger than me, and everyone tends to be either in the zone and focused, or really cool friendly people.

The people who talk shit about those people are generally insecure themselves and projecting their inner monologues on them - and the thing is, all the experienced people have been there and done that. Breaking through that is hard, but so rewarding.

My experience may be a bit dated (late '00s), but from the few times I tried climbing (and from interacting with the climbing-friends of people I knew from other activities), I found most of them to be standoffish, and a little bit too "proud" of their chosen hobby, as if climbing was somehow a noble endeavor, and that participating in it showed that you were of good breeding or something.

I certainly have no basis in painting all climbers with this brush, but this was my experience, and I found it to be pretty bizarre. Completely turned me off to making climbing a hobby of my own.

> it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.

Ironically being very dismissive of people based on their looks, nice.

It's weird, I have done quite a bit of top-roping and bouldering, but never really found it conducive to making friendships. Or maybe I'm just not the right demographic (early 40s, male). Definitely I chat to people about specific problems, but it never really seems to go beyond that.

I’m an early 30s male and I’m in your shoes as well. I found it to not be a very conducive space. I think it does vary a lot. I’ve only climbed significantly in NYC and SF. I’ve done some in PDX but not regularly.

I didn’t find any of the gyms I was at to be very “community” oriented. I think the personal experience depends a hell of a lot on how good of a climber you are and how you look. Typical tech looking guys were universally hated in all the gyms I went to - often enough with it being verbally said out loud to make sure they knew for sure. (Even if said people were doing nothing special)

There’s some weird shit going on in the US - tbh. Nerd hate is back on the rise.

Where did you climb in NYC, just curious? I've climbed here for a couple years, and found it to be really welcoming and inclusive of people from all backgrounds, tech included.

I mean, if you show up as a "[stereo]typical tech-looking guy" anywhere in America you'll get some disdain, in the same way that looking like a wall street guy would have gotten you disdain in 2008 +/- 10 years.

Maybe... don't flaunt the fact that you work in tech? It's a space that values humility, and tech is (stereotypically) anti-correlated with humility. I've never really felt uncomfortable for it, speaking personally.

As to the friendship discussion, it's kind of on your charisma and the other person's acceptance of it to move the conversation from bouldering to life in general, but it's a nice open window that I see swinging in the wind every time I go! Just don't wear headphones, and keep yourself approachable and supportive.

> Maybe... don't flaunt the fact that you work in tech?

I never brought it up nor do I wear FAANG apparel or anything that would indicate such. It would be brought up in conversations among other people that you'd hear. People were always bitching about people in tech going to climbing gyms.

I went to Vital in Brooklyn mostly. I did metrorock in Brooklyn as well. Considered some others but that's where friends wanted me to go.

> As to the friendship discussion, it's kind of on your charisma and the other person's acceptance of it to move the conversation from bouldering to life in general, but it's a nice open window that I see swinging in the wind every time I go! Just don't wear headphones, and keep yourself approachable and supportive.

This comes back to the "how you look" part of my post. People who are good looking tend to have no real issues in this part of life. Become part of the ugly group - you'll find this hurdle much larger. Especially in large places like SF and NYC. Looking like a nerd is much more about your physiognomy, frame, etc. It has very little to do with what you wear.

That makes sense! For context, Vital is a climbing gym where Google employees are arguably the target demographic. It’s a strange, Equinox-y vibe.

Metrorock Brooklyn is in a neighborhood that used to be working class, then was basically an art colony, and is now being converted into high-income housing (it’s been poster child region for gentrification in the last decade). So the resentment of “the other” and fear of change is in the water there, to some extent. Any anti-tech or anti-nerd sentiment is people bringing their outside-the-gym anxieties into the gym, I don’t think it’s representative of climbing generally.

That being said, NYC is one big mixing pot of gentrification. You’d probably have to go to Cliffs Valhalla or something to not hear it as a topic of conversation at all.

Re “how you look”, yeah it’s a truth. To be fair, being in shape and happy are two things that are strongly correlated with frequent climbing, and they help your appearance to others in equal measure. People who are good looking do have issues here when they’re in a bout of depression or anxiety —- nobody wants to talk to the sad or angry person. But you’re right, we’re wired to find symmetric and skinny people approachable, and that’s to our detriment. Vital especially is probably not the first gym I’d go to, if I were feeling self-conscious of appearances.

I’m surprised to hear about your experience at Vital, I go there all the time and have never felt unwelcome for working in tech.

There’s also a weekly Saturday meetup for people who explicitly want to be social. https://www.reddit.com/r/nycmeetups/comments/13qpv7e/0527_1p...

Oh no quite the contrary, I think we agree! :) Sorry, my comments on Vital came off differently based on the context of the paragraph. My guess is the GP's comment on being made to feel uncomfortable happened at MetroRock – it would be really ironic for a Vital person to say something unwelcoming towards tech, because techies are such a big component of their community. :)

By "strange", I meant that it's not a "typical"/"traditional" climbing gym – in that it's explicitly aimed at the top of market with their pricing, network, and amenities. Although, to be fair, it's a literally-dying breed in NYC so there isn't much to compare it to, locally.

I was saying I wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable there if I were self-conscious of appearances, because it's a relatively affluent milieu and setting. I do personally feel comfortable there myself, was just trying to empathize.

Happy to see there's meetups – it's a great place for that sort of thing.

Saying that people at climbing gyms are humble and open to others, while being liable to freeze you out if you work in tech doesn't quite square.

I mean, practically speaking most people in climbing gyms are humble and open to others. But there are always individuals in any positive environment who will over-extrapolate the good elements into gatekeepiness and virtue signaling.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge a community based on its vocal negative elements. As you see other people in this thread commenting, many of whom presumably work in tech, they haven’t had any issues with it.

I think many people generally have issues with tech companies, and some subset of that group boil it down to people and act accordingly. Some of them climb and bring it to the gym. Climbing culture has counterculture roots, which is more correlated with the view, but climbing is a pretty mainstream sport at this point.

I feel like indoor bouldering lends itself a lot better to make random friendships. Attempts at any given problem tend to be a lot quicker, there's often multiple people looking at that same problem, and there's the resting between attempts. Because bouldering problems are usually just a few moves, it's a lot easier to strike up a conversation to compare beta.

Yeah, I definitely have plenty of conversations about beta, etc, which is nice. But the closest any of those have ever come to turning into a friendship was someone mentioning the specific days and times they climbed and suggesting I try to synchronise.

I think it depends a lot on you and your level of outgoing friendliness and openness to striking up deeper conversations with strangers.

I read a lot of the responses here and couldn't see myself making friends in those sorts of situations (and have indeed been in some of them, without results), just because I'm not that particular kind of social to make it work.

Also came here to say climbing (specifically bouldering). I moved to a smaller city in the south last fall and within a month had a handful of new friends through the gym. Pretty soon got in with the crew of folks who worked there, started climbing outside with some of them and eventually ended up working part time at the gym as a side thing.

That being said, I think there's something about the community at this particular gym that is special. I climbed for years at gyms in Chicago and never had anything close to the level of community I found in a couple months down here. I'm sure my attitude / situation had something to do with it, as I went in this time with the intention to make friends and had a lot of free time to be able to spend at the gym; but the gym / community makes a huge difference. Look for smaller / community focused gyms if you can or try out a few different gyms to see if you click with any particular group of people. Try to go to events the gyms put on and be a familiar face.

Or a team.

I joined a rugby team that is open to everyone but highlights lgbt inclusivity in sport. We practice twice a week, have games, and have other events. I've made so many good friends from the team it's hard to keep up with them all.

Staying fit with them is an added bonus.

> There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade. That turns into a community where you start to hang out with them out of the gym/etc.

Agreed; my outside work community IS my martial arts community. There are the brief moments while waiting that you end up chatting with your partners. Eventually you learn what they do, if they have kids, etc. and since you see them weekly you often times get to share their experiences. When I was in college, it was pretty regular to ask the other people what they were up to that weekend. Next thing you know, you're grabbing food, going out for beers, seeing Marvel movies (personal experience there), or other things.

The shared misery scares people away, but you end up becoming invested in your partners' progress as well. When new students join you also get to serve as a peer mentor because just 6 months ago YOU were in their shoes.

As a counter argument I recently heard, some people dislike the hierarchal structure of martial arts. I can understand, but at least from my experience I enjoy it.

My experience with the hierarchy stuff was a lot worse in "traditional" martial arts versus something like BJJ. You've got a lot of "fake" black belts in TKD in part because it's mostly forms work and not really tested. Some sparing matches go hard, but that's rarely the case as you don't really want to be kicking with full force with your sparing partner. So the skill vs skill tests are much more limited.

In BJJ, you're typically going to be rolling with full effort. You're going to be put in a real choke hold and you're really going to go to sleep if you don't tap. We don't slam the joint locks the way you might see in a tournament setting with money on the line, but a slow and safe arm bar will work as well if you've actually got control of the limb. So for me the ranking in BJJ feels more aligned to actual ability to me than my experience with TKD did because you're getting a real test of your skills every class. The sorting feels more natural and everyone can clearly see the differences in skill play out daily.

You respect your classmates and seniors more because of your experiences rolling with them and less because it's demanded by the belt system and and built in by tradition.

Everything you said is aligned with my experience in training. BJJ is pure pressure testing of what you are learning and it is as close to fighting without striking and other dirty tactics like eye gouging. I have done traditional martial arts and it was not as close to experience under-pressure training. Also, I find myself in autopilot as well as in a focused, calm state when rolling at times.

I think in a real fight situation, someone who trains would be more calm to deal and, most likely, deescalate the situation because we are accustom to intense situations and our egos are tested so much that we are indifferent to silly challenges that can be fatal in some situations.

I've had the same experience with the BJJ community. Very positive and welcoming, and an incredible sport for training the mind as well as the body.

Some people get turned off by the behavior of certain fans of UFC but in my experience the groups of people who are starting fights in pubs and people who are actually showing up to intense physical training on a regular basis are mutually exclusive.

Same with where I train BJJ. Everyone is supportive and it helps make training fun.

To be clear to folks about this - both BJJ and CrossFit have a community element to them. (Especially CrossFit as far as I’ve seen)

I cannot say that is true of everything else. Yoga has no community for most classes you’ll take out there. Same is true of Pilates. A lot of other fitness classes you’d take that are maybe doing HIIT or whatever - it’s gonna be the same show-up and immediately leave type of crowd.

CrossFit and some other fitness activities are very intentional about having a community and making one if it doesn’t exist. That’s why CrossFit was often referred to as a cult. It’s got a large community vibe.

> There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade.

It's been scientifically proven that this is the way to create strong bonds with people. It's why we are easier to get close with former classmates and co-workers.

My fitness group is the rec basketball league that I participate.

I found BJJ was a great community, most clubs I see seem to have a community culture that build up around them.

Fully agree, the crossfit gym I joined several years ago has become an important part of my life.

I second that. I do a 5:15 am class on weekdays even during the summer when I don't have to take kids to school. My wife pushes me to sleep in a little and do a later morning class but I would miss my 5:15 crew so I keep getting up at 4:30 a.m. I love the community in CrossFit.

Is there any eh video (short-docu style) on CrossFit?

All I know about it is that people make fun of it. And they do weird pull-ups that I don't want to do. But I am attracted to the community aspect because I've also heard about that.

Try lifting things inappropriately for a few months while telling everyone how great CrossFit is because it focuses on “real world strength”. Eventually mess up your back and never mention CrossFit again.

That’s how it worked for my sister at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTdNI6Alh4c

Like most things, "dont knock it till you have tried it". You never have to do something you are either uncomfortable doing or are unable to do; and there always progressions for movements that might be difficult for you. For example, many overhead movements are difficult for me but the coaches will always work with you to find something you can do that will still be challenging and achieve the goal of the workout.

It doesn't even have to be group fitness. I've made great friends at traditional gyms (I train more in a bodybuilding style) just showing up and training.

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