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Comment by cdf | Hacker News Reader

As a Singaporean, I have to agree Singapore is an excellent place for business, ON PAPER. Most of the pro-business comes from the fact that the government does not protect workers.

Female employee pregnant? Feel free to pre-emptively fire her, as long as it is not 6 months before the baby is due. (Even the 6 months is a relatively new ruling, used to be ok till the baby pops).

Found a cheaper employee? Feel free to fire the existing one. No reasons need to be given. Employment at will, they call it.

As you may imagine, the employees reciprocates this regime by displaying little loyalty. You only need the smallest pay rise to prise away a rival's employee.

So good luck starting a business here. There is a reason why Singapore is dominated by MNCs and government owned conglomerates while small enterprises have unnaturally high failure rate, despite being so startup friendly, on paper.

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What I learned so far is that Singaporean are well known to be "Kiasu".

I heard many stories from friends and parent friend's kids that working 10-12 hours a day is a norm and most business owners will squeeze the most out of them (them being mostly workers from abroad granted working visa).

Most business owners or locals know they got the upper hand.

Having worked in Singapore for many years, I believe the examples that you have given are the rare exception rather than the norm.

I don't think many companies would simply fire existing workers when cheaper ones are found.

Nor do I think anyone I know would make a job switch just because of a slight increase in salary.

The should seem obvious to most, but the problem with countries that have laws that "protect" workers (as in Poland, where I've been working for the past several years) is that such laws dramatically suppress wages and job creation.

You can't get laid off for no reason (only so-called "mass" lay-offs where a minimum of 20% of staff has to go due to restructuring reasons - or, of course, disciplinary action) but the salary you employer pays you (much lower if such laws didn't exist) has to take into account that there can can be long periods of time where there is no work for you to do and they can't get rid of you legally.

One of the big reasons I am looking at expanding into Singapore is it is a major regional commercial hub. This may off-set some of this in some ways.

However, I find your points very valuable and will certainly keep them in mind as I proceed (obviously it would only happen when partnering with a Singaporean who is already in the field so to speak).

What kind of business are you talking about? Your comment sounds very "labour vs. capital", is it relevant to the kind of start-up commonly discussed here?

If I started a business in Singapore (and I have been considering it) I would be hiring employees that I liked and respected, and I'd pay them fairly. I can't imagine that I'd fire them "at will" because I found someone a few bucks cheaper, or that they'd abandon me for a few bucks more. I can't imagine high-value knowledge workers playing these kind of games. Maybe discount supermarkets poach each other's check-out workers but rails programmers?

And even if you were hiring relatively blue collar workers, eg if you were setting up a factory, it seems to me that the fact of being in a hands-off regulatory environment would make employees respond even better to being treated well.

Just because in theory you can get away with acting like an asshole, doesn't mean you have to, or it is wise for you to do so.

I think you are right that the key is to get away from the labor vs capital direction.

It means ensuring that your early employees have a stake in the business. I would think that the stock options approach would be fairly similar.

The issue is that if there is a serious labor vs capital division, the struggle is going to hurt everyone.

You will find that sticking to your principles of paying fairly will be difficult, because Singapore is quickly becoming one of the most expensive cities to live in.

What you save in taxes, you will pay back many folds in rental and transportation costs. If you have never been to Singapore, you will not be able to imagine how much it costs to own a car in Singapore. Most expensive in the world, by far.

And because of the ease of hiring foreigners, you will find that there will be plenty of cheap rails programmers available... may not be the type you want, but you will find pressure from elsewhere questioning why you overpay your staff when cheaper ones are available.

And for a population conditioned to ill treatment, you will find that you will not be able to change the cynical culture overnight.

Lastly, if your competition is also based in Singapore, then you will be competiting with assholes with asshole level productivity and cost structures. Over the long term, you will win. But over the short term, you will be choked to death by the assholes who can promise more and cost less.

Thanks for your response. I didn't see it earlier, I try not to look at HN too often..

I've been to Singapore many times, and am fully aware of how much it costs to own a car. I live in Sydney, which if anything is more expensive than SG except for the car taxes. I do not consider Singapore to be expensive compared to Australia.

You refer often to appearances to others - investors, perhaps, comparing your costs of labour to other companies? What other oversight would you be experiencing?

Honestly I hadn't really thought about hiring cheap natives. Singapore is something of a hub for expats and I was thinking I would just invite anyone I needed.

If you have exeperience with running a startup style business in singapore I would love to hear about it.

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