Comment by flyingshoes | Hacker News Reader

Comment by flyingshoes | Hacker News Reader

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Oh hey -- this is me.

I was a software engineer for close to 6 years, and now I'm a barista (read more here: https://thoughtfulcoffeenyc.substack.com/p/roast-24-the-bari... ). The change in role isn't permanent, as I intend to go back to tech to save money and then leave it to try and open a cafe in a few years.

But my thoughts on your questions:

> How did you find it (assuming the job)?

At the moment, I enjoy it! I do think... I'd likely get bored after a year or two since there really isn't a lot of variety to the barista job. I'm able to practice and develop my social skills which wasn't something I was able to do as an engineer, and it's kinda exciting waking up knowing you'll get to interact with new people. In tech, it was just the same people over and over again -- which isn't bad, but I remember always wishing that I could interact with more/new people.

> Did you miss the money and status?

Yes. Lol. Also a reason why I intend to return to tech... I can't really live my current lifestyle off a barista salary. I don't care much for the status, but I do miss the freedom that money brings. I also miss the flexibility that tech has.

Anyways, hopefully my answers were helpful to you!

Barista and opening cafe? My suggestion is to learn the economics of those businesses rather than the operations. You can hire the operational side - and those businesses are economically margin tight.

I spent about a decade running purchasing teams for food companies and startups before changing careers. People with tech or academic business operations backgrounds tend to approach food businesses like this, whether well capitalized startups or less ambitious pet projects to start, say, a pie company or a coffee shop, and consequently go to zero very quickly. The people I've seen have the most lasting success in this space are, perhaps unsurprisingly, non-tech people who have simply worked in the business from the ground up, often without much formal training.

The short of it is that food business is different and extremely difficult in that, aside from the razor-thin margins, culture and relationships are absolutely critical, moreso than in any other industry. In other words, you won't get far treating your employees and vendors (and by extension, your customers) like fungible APIs, because word that you're kind of a jerk will spread quickly, and they'll all end up killing you.

Anyway, all that said, the parent has the right intuition about this. Work on the ground floor, because doing that will give you much better intuitions and insights about the economics and cadence of the business and you'll probably end up interacting with employees, vendors, and customers. Then learn the economics more formally. Ideally find a mentor in the industry, and remember to humanize everyone at every step, no matter who they are.

This is excellent advice for arts businesses as well. If you have the relationships you have a business, even if it's subcritical for you. If you don't have the relationships you just have debt in disguise.

> and those businesses are economically margin tight

Read: terrible, mostly just labor-intensive real estate plays.

^ This. I have a tendency to abrasively be emotionally insensitive to people's dreams and am trying to be supportively realistic.

It depends on how you look at things. In many ways the point of dreams is more about the pursuit of them, than the achievement of such. Because it's not like you achieve something and finally you're there - it's done, you've made it. Well it might be that way for a brief period. But in short order you'll be onto the next dream.

It's human nature. We're not content, which is probably a really great evolutionary driver, but not really a great driver for things like stability. And it's not all material. Even something like e.g. stoicism is largely a dream. It's a never-ending battle which you'll never win, but the point isn't about winning it, but about finding fulfillment in the journey along the way.

> which is probably a really great evolutionary driver

While true, I find this ironic since this constant drive for new things is a huge source of dissatisfaction, unhappiness, and general lack of desire to procreate.

You can tell me all day to find fulfillment in the journey, but life isn't setup that way. Most often the highest paying work is devoid of novelty and is mostly an exercise in focus and repetition.

We spend our most healthy and youthful years, sitting a chair staring at a monitor for the majority of our days and the worst part is we're payed so incredibly well that you'd be a fool to do anything else.

"Enjoy the journey" I hear everyone say. What journey?

Stability by itself means being content, so being not content cannot bring stability. I guess stability doesn't explore the darkness for other possible dangers, doesn't prepare us for surprises all too well, thus we yearn for something undefined called stability but will never stop when we attained the last year's definition.

I admire your impulse to be more sensitive to people’s dreams.

Lol, well put. I feel you there.

Thanks for the advice!

I agree the economics are important, and I definitely intend to learn them. I just also want to know how to barista and be able to operate the cafe!

I enjoy serving coffee, and I want to be interacting with my customers/staff/etc. :)

I'm friendly with a few local small cafes (one shop only), and the owners all involved with service.

Good suggestion, but I'd say it's an "and", not "instead". Being a barista (customer-facing node, your UI) is a critical piece of understanding the business.

I think your advice of not learning the operations is really bad advice, especially for a small business. If it's a low margin business, hiring people when you should be doing the work yourself isn't going to help. Small business owner definitely need to get their hands dirty. While I'm not totally convinced, Elon Musk thinks owners should get their hands dirty even when in a large corporation.

> ...practice and develop my social skills which wasn't something I was able to do as an engineer...

An affiliated note to junior engineers out there reading this. The more senior your role in software development organizations, the more you rely upon your social skills to demonstrate value. OP's six years would only have exposed them to the very beginnings of that effect that are often subtle at that stage.

Also, if you go into any client-facing software role like sales engineering, your value is tied directly into your social skill development from Day 0.

Dale Carnegie's classic How to Win Friends and Influence People is a decent place to start if you are interested but don't have a network or a mentor to lean upon (classic chicken and egg problem for introverts who want to learn to "pass" as extroverts or even become extroverts).

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