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Comment by jakear | Hacker News Reader

Explain what about thermodynamics allows for a closed system to progress forward in time without increasing disorder please.

Or are you proposing we export the disorder to outer-space? If so that’s a plan I’d love to hear.

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There's a very large difference and lots of possible expressible dynamics between "no entropy increase" and "lots of entropy increase".

Keep showing us how little you know about the topics on which you comment.

PS the Earth is not a closed system either. The incident sunlight is the only thing that keeps the Earth warm at the macro scale, and energy radiates back out mostly in the infrared range. The amount of greenhouse gases can differ and the global temperature will differ as a result.

And does our specific position on that gradient matter, at all?

Again, I’d love to hear your explanation of how we’re exporting this entropy. Black body radiation? I don’t think that’ll be enough.

> Black body radiation?

Yes[1][2].

> I don’t think that’ll be enough.

Nature doesn't care about what we think.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_energy_budget#Earth'...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_temperature#Earth_ef...

The earth has a certain amount of energy sequestered. The sun provides a certain (constant) amount additional per year. Black body radiation emits a certain (variable, proportionate to temperature, perhaps) amount per year. Everything else is just meaningless argument about constant factors.

> Everything else is just meaningless argument about constant factors.

For the inhabitants of Earth, it most certainly is not meaningless, and the whole point is that they're not constant factors. For one, the composition of the atmosphere plays a huge role, and it is not constant thanks to both natural and human-driven processes.

I’m an inhabitant and it’s meaningless to me. What about it holds meaning to you?

The earth isn't a closed system. It receives energy from the sun which can be used to decrease entropy here on earth. Like an organism receiving energy from eating other organisms can regulate its own entropy. Sure you can't escape entropy because the sun will eventually die too, but that's a while away.

What is the mechanism by which excess energy is used to permanently sequester/export entropy?

It's not a closed system, we import massive amounts of energy from the sun every day. Some of it escapes back into space, depending on the atmosphere/albedo/etc.

Anyways, how do you think radiators work on space stations?

So you’re saying we’re doomed to an increasingly unpredictable and disorderly existence, regardless of our actions?

I agree.

Are you agreeing the Earth is not a closed system?

I’m asking for a mechanism by which we might export entropy.

Understanding, of course, that it’s only kicking the can down the road.

No, I explained how your earlier comment was facile to the point of being incorrect, like you asked. How you interpret that is up to you.

I may have missed your point, was it praying to the almighty god “black body radiation”?

Sarcasm layered on top of staggeringly proud willful ignorance just isn’t the winning combination you seem to think it is.

“I know the answer but I’m so smart that I won’t explain it” is equally useless.

You might wish to reread the comments in reply to you—in good faith this time—and realize that people have in fact tried to explain it to you. Perhaps you were too busy knocking over chess pieces and strutting around on the board victoriously to notice?

Still haven’t seen a mechanism by which we can export entropy at hypernatural rates. Which is all I’ve been asking for, in multiple sub threads.

But sure, pop off on the metaphors. They truly showcase your heightened intellect. We should all strive to write metaphors as thoughtlessly as you.

The point that literally everyone's been making, quite clearly and coherently, is that there is no need to develop special methods to export "entropy" if you just generate it slowly enough, i.e., sustainably.

Your sass is even more embarrassing considering that you've missed this very basic point every time someone has patiently explained it to you. Further, your focus on entropy is misguided and ultimately irrelevant. Thermal energy is only proportional to entropy in the equilibrium setting but as has been made painfully clear by now Earth is an open system that is always far from equilibrium, so obviously it's not a very useful factor to consider.

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