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tourmalinetaco

It’s horrifying that homeschooling is considered child abuse multiple countries.

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Not really. In many cases it cripples the child's social development. Which is child abuse.

And somehow the prison-scholar complex doesn't count?

That doesn't exist in my country, we have a tiny prison population.

Are you counting the children mandated to go to school as part of that population of prisoners?

If that was truly the reason why, and not a convenient excuse, then governments would state mandate social activities and not take children from their parents, which would be just as abusive.

Instead, it’s all about mandating government control over children.

I know many home schooled children. I see no evidence of poor social development. In fact I see more emotional scars left by bad interactions at public schools than I do from homeschooling.

Careful about your experience representing a biased sample. For children who had poor social development likely resulted in less likelihood of knowing you at all.

I agree. My sample is biased and not a scientific study.

I'm involved in a religious group that has a higher rate of homeschooling.

But the adults, who were homeschooled, that I've met are some of the most well adjusted, charming and confident people around.

Yet I've met some who were bullied in school and have to seek help because of it.

That is not to say that you can't do home school wrong and screw up your kids. You totally can.

1 anecdotal experience is all it takes to disprove a sweeping generalization

I'd suggest that this perspective is tainted by the association in the United States between home schooling and religious separatism. Home schooling in Europe (and in some places in the US) is much more often about parents coming together to provide a safer, less structured, less authoritarian, more project based space for their kids to learn. Check out the unschooling movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unschooling#:~:text=Unschoolin....

It’s also tainted by authoritarian regimes indoctrinating people to believe the only ones capable of teaching the children are the aforementioned regimes.

In your opinion, which should apply to your own children.

It might also be argued that "in many cases" sending your children to public school where they'll receive a vastly inferior education is child abuse.

In some people's opinion, not teaching your children about Jesus is child abuse, and vice versa.

So then who should draw the lines? When should the government and society have a greater say over a child than their own parents?

If literacy is falling year after year in a country and the schools are not making changes, should a parent not consider homeschool?

My kids attend public school, by the way, but I think this is a worthwhile discussion.

In many cases public school cripples a child’s social development and leaves them with anxiety, shame, and other social hang ups for the rest of their life.

Can you quantify the "many cases?"

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/students-proficient-math-balt...

It's horrifying that parents decide to isolate their own children and ensure they are only exposed to that subset of knowledge that the parents themselves are comfortable with, in an attempt to mold them into their own likenesses.

This isn't the main motive of the ones I know... where did you get your impression from?

I think the main problem might be that, ok, while there are possibly a lot of people who would try their best to give their kids an education, there’d probably also be a big percentage of people who wouldn’t bother at all.

So basically the kids would have no chances to learn, socialize and compete at all.

a) of course schools should be good and safe, but

b) people who homeschool should imho show that they put in the effort required to provide for a good education at least in some sense.

Otherwise some kids would live in squalor and would have no way out. I always thought that was the original motivation for general school duty, all cynicism about the actual implementation and its weaknesses aside.

So give homeschool children state-sponsored tests, and if they are falling behind then you have an argument for forcing other schooling.

The default should not be “you have no rights as a parent”, as it is in multiple countries.

The problem with homeschooling is that it makes it very easy to hide all kinds of child abuse. In government-run or at least government-audited schools, teachers (who are often mandatory reporters) have a chance to spot signs of sexual, emotional or physical abuse - children who are homeschooled have no one to turn to.

Additionally, government-run/-audited schools have a mandate to actually teach children science and facts, whereas homeschooling parents or religious cults often have absolutely zero requirements on what they have to teach their children - no requirements about even basic sexual education, biology, history, maths or ethics. These children often enough are so under-educated the only employment they can find is at some sort of religious cult.

Homeschooling without audits is child abuse.

Public schooling without audits is just as likely, if not more so, to result in child abuse as well.

In which country are public schools allowed to operate without any audit nor oversight?

I didn’t say any countries like that existed? Though it wouldn’t shock me.

OP said that “homeschooling without audits is child abuse”, and I was pointing out that that is disingenuous since a theoretical public school without audits would be even worse for children.

I agree that unaudited homeschooling can result in abuse, but the solution is not to ban homeschooling. It is to create a structure that supports an individual’s right to care for their children. That makes sure the child reaches certain age-dependent markers while giving the parent (and thus, the child) the freedom to explore the world how best suits them.

Your comment read a lot more like you were making a factual comparison rather than a theoretical argument…but I do agree that if schools were to theoretically not be audited then that would be bad.

I do find the second half of your post a lot more compelling though. That’s what you should have lead with in your earlier comment. :)

Here in NZ you have to apply for permission to homeschool. You typically need to follow a curriculum.

The homeschooled people I know have outperformed most of their peers academically. Except one with Asperger's.

As for child abuse, sure but most will still have interactions with medical personnel, and other families via sports and friends.

Agreed. Allowing children to sleep at home is also very dangerous. Not to mention spending unsupervised time during their waking hours with parents and family members without regular government audits. Thank you for standing up for children.

> Additionally, government-run/-audited schools have a mandate to actually teach children science and facts,

There's mandates to teach what the government claims to be facts as facts.

Back in the 90s, it was regular curriculum to teach everyone to eat all the breads and pasta and to limit proteins and really limit fats. None of that was fact, but based on incomplete science and lobbying from the farm industry to continue a stable corn market.

Governments are not the authority on what is fact, science, or fiction. We saw that pretty plainly in 2020 when governments and scientists changed opinions on acceptable social practices based on political situations (eg. Church services were unacceptable, but BLM street parties, protests, and riots were acceptable)

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