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Comment by calibraxis | Hacker News Reader

That unfortunately won't turn out to be the ethical thing to do. Our government overthrew Iran's secular, parliamentary democracy and installed the Shah — and it's still threatening them. (They fail to have a sufficiently obedient tyranny.) This proposal you mention is tantamount to supporting more attacks.

Fortunately, there's a lot of room to really help out mideasterners — by getting our government off their backs and stop supporting their regimes.

And anyone in an ethical mood need look no further than their own country! The US jails far more of its own people than any other country. On Feb 20, you can participate in a nearby Occupy 4 Prisoners. (http://occupy4prisoners.org/actions/)

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Wait, are you speaking out against the US criminal justice system? Is that because you... plan to invade it? Or do you believe that maybe, just maybe, saying something might achieve the kind of push-back you want to happen?

Maybe countries could do that too...? Hmm. And I'm pretty sure they don't have to be pure virgin countries in order to condemn unfairness.

Wait, are you trying to reform Iran to internationally end the death penalty for certain crimes? Or are you just playing into CIA psyops to overthrow the Iranian government.

Maybe the U.S. could do that too...? Hmm. Too bad there wasn't this same energy to stop the U.S. from executing Troy Davis, or murdering Al-Awlaki's 16 year old son, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen. Probably couldn't get that support in racist North America.

Amazingly enough, I am doing neither of those things.

And try to make your mind up: does speaking out work too well, or not well enough?

You are exhibiting classic signs of "us vs. them" syndrome.

What do you expect from a continent that's only been inhabited for fifteen thousand years?

As for the meme that "America is the worst country!"-

Although I would love for us to shoulder less of the burden and withdraw, the nuclear fallout would circle the globe.

Under the NPT Treaty Iran has a right to develop nuclear energy. As for the Western canard about Iran's nuclear weapons, that dog won't hunt. It is also a double unfair standard for the imperialist U.S. and Israel to have nuclear weapons and prevent Iran from having similar weapons.

Truly. The world would be a much safer place if every country had intercontinental nuclear warheads. Even better if everyone had guns that fired mini-nukes. It would completely end all crime and war!

WTH are you talking about? A lot of things happened in the past, it's customary to let it stay in the past. The Iranian government had a chance to make things better for their citizens and for the world after overthrowing the Shah.

Instead, they try to control people's individual freedoms, suppress those who speak against them and who propose reforms, try to isolate themselves from the international community and restrict free trade, not allow the UN inspectors to see whether they're building nuclear plants or warheads, threaten other countries in the area and a lot of other stuff. It's going backwards.

It's true that there are some elements in the US and EU who'd like to set up the middle east as a source of cheap resources, but surely there is a better way to control that than isolationism and totaliarism?

On a side note, I'm pretty sure Mahmoud or any other government official wouldn't be arrested for watching porn, for example - that's the sort of inequality that people are fighting against for hundreds of years now...

I think we can agree on the evil of Iran's leadership, but...

> "A lot of things happened in the past, it's customary to let it stay in the past."

Except this behavior isn't really past. The U.S. is still eager to unilaterally overthrow the governments of other countries, for purely economic reasons no less. I'm sure you know which country I have in mind.

> "try to isolate themselves from the international community and restrict free trade"

Yeah, and United States of fuckin America don't cotton to no isolationism. That shit's a sure way to get on our bad side, especially if the "free trade" they're curtailing involves oil.

Note that refusing to participate in America's version of "free trade" is not illegal under any sort of law.

> "not allow the UN inspectors to see whether they're building nuclear plants or warheads"

They do allow inspections. A team of IAEA inspectors was there last month. The US just doesn't like to acknowledge this because we already have our fucking mind made up.

> "surely there is a better way to control that than isolationism and totaliarism?"

I'd love to hear your ideas.

The US government in no way has a consistent policy. It's a $4 trillion beast, filled with millions of actors, and countless departments all running their show the way they see it.

More often than not, one hand is not talking to the other. They constantly leave each other out of the loop.

One department wants freedom in the middle east, the other prefers secular military dictatorships under the guise of stability. And so on and so forth.

One of the biggest myths about the US Govt. is that it acts with any form of cohesion internally. In reality, you might as well look at it more like a hundred micro states, all with budgets the size of a nation like Bulgaria (eg - $20 billion).

And that, IMO, is the biggest argument for shrinking it. When the left hand can't even see the right hand, it's too big.

Do you work for the Iranian government? If not you might want to schedule an MRI.

Are you a running dog for the CIA?

Communist pejorative, nice touch. Listen mate. Not everything is hexagonal conspiracy. America is fucked up, but we are talking about Iran here.

No, sorry that was GB and Russia that did that during WWI

Operation Ajax. Look it up.

An interesting result from Googling "Operation Ajax":

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...

Fascinating, absolutely fascinating, that this is posted on cia.gov. This restores in me a teeny tiny bit of respect for my government.

I've read Kinzer's book. I came away much less a fan of Winston Churchill than I was before. He was quite a tyrant when it came to preserving the empire.

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