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Comment by withinboredom | Hacker News Reader

That is usually against the card-processing agreement. If you want to have fun, you can report them to Visa/MC and watch that go away within a few days.

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That is largely not the case at all. In fact charging such is explicitly legal but also regulated: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/pricing/card-surcharges

The exception to that is American Express directly issued cards and American Express merchant contracts have had such terms at least in the past. Not sure if they still do.

Back in 2005, I bought a car in India. I was trying to pay a part of the purchase price using my credit card. My auto dealer wanted me to add a surcharge. When I called up my card company and complained about this, i was asked to pay the surcharge by my card issuer's call center employee :-(

The parent is likely referring to AMEX cards, which is the only issuer that enforces it as a global policy.

And hence why in developing countries only luxury and ultra-luxury establishments accept AMEX cards.

It's not a global policy. It's regional.

Source?

Nope, this is completely (laws vary by state) legal as of ten years ago.

https://www.lawpay.com/about/blog/credit-card-surcharge-rule...

Legal, yes, you're not going to go to jail for it. However, in accordance with the contract they signed to get access to the card network… they probably are not allowed to do this. Each card issuer has a dedicated form to report this activity.

Parent provided you a link explaining how this changed 10 years ago. You are unequivocally allowed in the United States to pass along credit card surcharges in all but two states. It's permitted by law, and it's permitted by merchant agreements!

If you don't believe parent, and you don't believe me, I hope you believe Visa's own FAQ.

> Q. Can I add a surcharge to card transactions?

> As a result of a legal settlement to resolve claims brought by a group of U.S. merchants, merchants in the U.S. and U.S. territories may add a surcharge to certain credit card transactions, starting January 27, 2013. Merchants who choose to surcharge must follow consumer disclosure and other requirements agreed to as part of the settlement.

[1] https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/surcharging...

Hmm, I think we are talking past each other. It isn't allowed without notice to MC/Visa, the cap is ~4% of the total, IIRC (which is usually far less than what I remember seeing when I last reported it a few years ago), and they require advance notice to the customer (before consumption) along with a line-item on the receipt.

Just because it is legal, doesn't mean they are doing it right -- and in my limited experience, they usually aren't.

They’re doing all of the above correctly, it’s placarded, and it’s obvious that since it’s all done similarly that there’s groups detailing how to do it.

You realize that contracts can't contain illegal clauses right? They aren't enforceable in any court.

I thought we already established that it wasn't illegal? You can, however, create contracts that restrict your abilities or for things that are perfectly legal. For example, we can sign a contract that you're no longer aloud to walk, or buy candy. That's a legally enforcable contract.

In this case the contract is that 1) you tell them you're doing this and 2) that it is capped to a certain amount and 3) you are visibly doing it and the customer is properly informed.

These are all pretty reasonable contractual terms, IMHO.

For example, we can sign a contract that you're no longer aloud to walk

No, I can't.

If you have me sign a contract that says "refurb agrees to no longer walk in exchange for $50,000", that will not be enforceable in court.

https://blog.ipleaders.in/unenforceable-contracts-what-you-n...

You said "If you want to have fun, you can report them to Visa/MC and watch that go away within a few days.", so no, if they are following the contract terms, it won't go away.

And Visa isn't able to include a blanket ban on surcharges due to changes in the law that would make such a contract illegal and unenforceable.

Can't this by circumvented by giving cash customers with a discount? It's like how things are sometimes offered interest-free, but a discount is given if you pay for it outright.

I believe so, but it could also vary state-to-state.

Cash discounting was blanket permitted in all 50 states under Durbin. [1] It also de facto invalidated any clause in a merchant agreement that precluded this practice.

[1] https://www.atlantafed.org/blogs/take-on-payments/2018/04/30...

Only places I've ever seen do this are gas stations. And I've calculated the discount, I've never seen it be more than the cashback I get on gas purchases from my card. Usually, it is way less. And that is without getting into losing the time saving/convenience of paying at the pump.

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