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Comment by bendbro | Hacker News Reader

I agree, I wonder if depression is not always rooted in some random, mental problem but rather a reasonable reaction to reality.

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I'd wager that depression is merely a symptom of learned helplessness, a natural response to being repeatedly powerless in circumstances one is vested in the outcome of. A result of being repeatedly and extremely frustrated, and/or being in circumstances of great cognitive dissonance despite ones attempts to resolve it.

It seems to me the best way to fight depression, is to contimually distract yourself (particularly with an activity you can control), from whatever is depressing you. As if, by being busy, so much, that you end up forgetting about those depressing things. I know it's easier said than done, but to me, it seems to work if you're able, whereas focusing or dwelling on the depressing things, seems to further depression.

People who suffer from chronic depression do so without regard to circumstance. It's a mental plague that follows one wherever they go, whatever they do. It has nothing do with reactions to anything. There's nothing reasonable about it.

I disagree. Mine set in after my first child.

I did not say that there is no such thing as situational depression.

It's a bit unclear from your comment whether you're saying situational depression is different from chronic depression. Having seen chronic depression, I would say that in at least some people it is triggered by stressors. Obviously when it is chronic there are other factors at play such as genetics, childhood experiences, etc. which make depression more likely to happen at any point in time.

Some people who suffer from chronic depression do so independent of their life circumstances.

But other people who suffer from serious depression do so in ways that can be connected to their life circumstances and the framework of meaning they build for themselves around it.

I think one of the biggest disservices we do to people suffering from depression is lumping those two categories together.

It's like we have a single diagnosis for "bleeding" and very rarely distinguish stab wounds from hemophilia.

I read a book called “Lost Connections” which pretty much solidified my belief that most depressions are actually a reaction to something that a person doesn’t feel right about in their life, and is not making any effort to change, because they might not even be aware.

> but rather a reasonable reaction to reality

The theory you're describing is "depressive realism". It's hotly contested. In some ways, depressed people can make more accurate assessments, as most people have an optimism bias, but their assessments get unrealistically over-pessimistic as time passes.

Do you blame the bug or the debugger then?

Given the general tech-dystopian living conditions and % distribution of non-free software throughout the population: depression would be near universal if this was truly the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism

I kept saying this for years on HN but until the 2022 study it was always voted down and told that NO, it is due to a chemical imbalance and that we don’t understand

There is the chemical imbalance and then there is the diagnosis. Complete guess, but wouldn’t be surprised if the rate of people with the imbalance has climbed less dramatically over the last several years than the rate of people being positively diagnosed.

I recall that study!

I suspect those downvotes are due to people recognizing that it implies depression is sometimes within the control of someone afflicted by it and conflating that with blaming the person afflicted by it. People seem offended by critiques of modern ideas that rationalize away an individual's control, agency, and especially culpability for their behavior or outcomes. Sometimes these rationalizations are fair, other times not.

I think that it's simpler: people have long been encouraged to believe that certain medical procedures and practices that lack great evidence are responsible for saving their lives, and that anyone who critiques those procedures in any way is trying to kill them. People who are paid (as often as not by government) to provide those procedures and practices encourage these beliefs, and spend massive amounts of money in lobbying through patients' rights groups and other channels to support and encourage people in that fear and anger.

People who are sick either continue to be sick, get well, or die. No matter what diagnosis or treatment you give to someone, they either get better, don't get better, or are removed from the conversation. We never hear from the dead again, the people who get better insist that you saved their lives, and the people who don't get better will be attacked by the people who did for not believing or trusting you enough.

That study does not support your intuitions on this matter, but merely excludes seratonin as the basis for a chemical imbalance causing depression. It does not show that there exists no material cause for depression, only that there is strong reason to believe it is not related to seratonin.

First of all, that study is about challenging a specific chemical imbalance, which was not that well supported anyway.

But I think mental illnesses challenge our very old notions of free will, willpower and control. How much are you really in control when the mental structure for motivation in the brain is broken? Personally, it's not like I pulled myself out of depression. I just took advantage of a "break" my brain gave me.

This is a misreading of the study which was about seratonin. It does not conclude that therefore there is no material condition underlying depression and that it's environmental and somehow the result of circumstance.

The thing that's dangerous about this line of thinking is that most depressed people feel like they have insight and are reacting to reality as it really is. But if the depression lifts, they usually no longer feel that way.

So trying to figure out whether depression is reasonable is usually a trap, and will not improve the person's life. The thing to do is to manage the feelings, treat the depression, and revisit those topics once the depression lifts.

Well recently the chemical imbalance thing was debunked - no measurable imbalance. Maybe they will make progress now!

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