Hacker News Reader

Comment by yakubin | Hacker News Reader

> I'm pretty sure anyone on earth would know whether or not they were on 75 micrograms of LSD

I wouldn’t. I have no idea how strong the effects of LSD are supposed to be based on a dose. I suspect only people who have taken LSD know really.

View on HN

Assuming you have almost no prior knowledge about LSD, you might not be sure whether you're in the control group or not if you were actually given the placebo. If you received the LSD instead: 75ug is a very noticeable dose, I assure you you would have zero doubt whether you were in the control group or not.

In my case (80kg, male, slender/muscular), 75ug is the highest dose I can still, with significant and perpetual effort, appear sober to the uninitiated.

> appear sober to the uninitiated

The initiated, however know exactly why your pupils are huge and you have that look on your face.

My pupils are fine at that dose. It's more subtle, it's the way I start looking at things (clouds, bark, grass, fur, my own hand) or zoning out while talking to someone. FWIW I never went above 100ug, nor do I feel like I want or need to. It gets quite intense once you learn how to let it.

Im guessing you aren't injecting it

Are you? Getting access to liquid LSD and the means to IM or IV it are certainly not typical, or anywhere near the prevalence of access to the oral form

I mean it's water soluble and you can get syringes and medicinal NaCl solution in a pharmacy just fine, so if you really want to go down that road it's no problem. Just begs the question why anyone would do that.

Thanks for explaining this. Perhaps 75ug in one group and 25ug in the other would have been a better test.

Blows my mind to think - the design of an experiment can have a huge impact on the outcome. I guess, clinical trials are just as much an art as they are a science.

100 micrograms taken orally is the popular norm. What GP means is that you might not know as a reader, but if you were one of the test subjects you would very definitely know you were not in the control group. Likewise if you were in the control group but had taken LSD before you'd know you had drawn the short straw (unless the details of what was being tested were completely withheld).

Withholding the details of what was being tested would definitely not be informed consent.

~15/20ug is the dose an experienced person would percievably be able to notice, so microdosing is below this.

75ug is the lower end of the recreational scale. I first ever started with ~50ug (which honestly I'd recommend for beginners) and I had antidepressents in my system so it's effect is dulled a bit - and that was a giggly, eyes-full-of-wonder, oversaturated, and slight motion inpainting, wonderful experience. There was no way anyone mistakes that for being sober.

That said the come-up at any dose and any experience level is hilarious because everyone is always like "is it hitting yet?" as it progressively becomes more intense.

tl;dr - placebo could fool even some experienced users if they know they're being given a really low dose. The treatment group would absolutely know no matter how much experience you have.

https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/LSD

EDIT: Sidenote, safety first friends. Always use two different reagents to test, and always have a plan to control anxiety in case of bad trips.

Even 15/20ug is quite a bit, which I would sometimes consider a minidose (depending on the setting).

I detect even down to 5-7ug LSD that I'm dosed (though I'm quite experienced with all kinds of dosages).

75ug is definitely tripping-level. No way someone couldn't detect that they are dosed, just the contrast/visual-enhancing qualities alone should be enough to detect that, maybe even some LSD-typical distortions can occur at that dose...

Sorry but I have to ask. In what kinds of contexts did you become experienced? Is LSD in at least a gray area anywhere on earth? The country I come from that is an illegal drug, but it being a neuroplasticity enhancer is what attracted my attention. I've also read about microdosing which can enhance focus or creativity. Can it be prescribed for treating depression or other mental deficits or the approvals are not at that stage yet?

Recreationally dosing in all kinds of settings and doses (e.g. microdosing in almost any setting on very different doses etc.). I have accurately tested LSD, so I know the exact dose I'm taking. Also I've done a bit of research of various scientific articles.

It's unfortunately not really legal though where I'm living.

AFAIK there are a few psychiatrists/researchers around the world where it's approved for clinical studies, where you could try it in a clinical setting. But unfortunately you're often still on your own with trying it. I tried microdosing it for treating ADHD, but I'm not really sure if it really helped there, and I'm back on the usual medications, YMMV though, as LSD has mild stimulant properties as well.

I may try a combination/mix of LSD and other ADHD medications in the near future though.

It being a neuroplasticity enhancer doesn't necessarily mean that it's enhancing in a good/healthy way. I noticed that my thoughts/imagination have gone a bit more "visual" (not sure if that's really the right term), I'm not sure if it really made me more creative. I think for me it mostly manifested my mind further and I'm a bit more in tune with nature etc. (much more conscious of all the "ecocrimes" humanity is doing).

This may not always be a good thing if e.g. you're prone to conspiracy theories. It can also mean that it's promoting growth in areas in the brain that shouldn't be connected (e.g. leading to psychosis), it's still a powerful substance which should be handled carefully.

But in general I think it still takes some time until this is a clinically approved substance. I think it will likely be for stuff like depression or PTSD or generally disorders originating mostly in the frontal lobe. I have certainly noticed the antidepressive properties of it (although I never had a real depression while taking it).

Just a question but are you able to accurately measure down to 5-7ug to know that's how much you're testing? As I'm familiar with, tabs and other dosing with exception to volumetric are well known for large discrepancies in reported vs actual dose

Yeah liquid dosing, pretty sure I did it right, got accurate dosed acid as well (which is rare AFAIK). But even if it wouldn't super accurate, it's much more likely to be less acid than more.

But I'm quite hypersensitive to substances in general I think, so my experience may not be representative.

The most accurate method is to have it in liquid form and dose that way.

> ~50ug (which honestly I'd recommend for beginners)

So says the guy who took LSD while on antidepressents.

> EDIT: Sidenote, safety first friends.

possibly I'm high but I find this rather amusing. Enjoy but don't play doctor until you get your degree.

> possibly I'm high but I find this rather amusing. Enjoy but don't play doctor until you get your degree.

I'm not saying it's safe. In fact I think there's significant potential for harm from careless use of psychs, and I can't recommend it from a safety perspective.

That being said, if you were going to use it - and this goes for any drug - you MUST test it. You cannot OD on 4 tabs of LSD. If it's actually 2C-B (it's half the price) then you could die.

If you're on the fence - don't take it.

If you were going to anyway - take it in a way that minimizes harm.

You must be thinking of something like 25B-NBOMe, not 2C-B. 2C-B is not potent enough to be dosed on blotter, and its lethal dose is unknown but expected to be quite high. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C-B

hey, it was and is all super friendly.

and I am not saying it is unsafe. (have no idea, never partook. naturally exhibited behavior that apparently the "initiated" will interpret as micro-cruising. just this very day was attentively looking at bark, but thankfully no one caught me in the act.)

so can we agree as hackernews friends that you exhibited questionable judgement (all ok, who is perfect) and you shouldn't go around giving advice on taking mind altering chemicals?

"lsd is great, you should try it" is fine. "take this much and if you're on this is fine. i survived" is not, imho.

> "lsd is great, you should try it" is fine. "take this much and if you're on this is fine. i survived" is not, imho.

I guess I should have worded it differently.

The dose I took was actually ~1/2 a tab, as compared to starting with a full tab (the exact ug is basically impossible to know). Some people would view this as "wasting it". I think starting with a full tab would likely be overwhelming for some people, but I don't mean to say any ug is "safe" or recommended. It's just that a lot of people are going to do it anyway, and if they do I'd rather they have the best chance at being safe. This stuff isn't really well medically documented so it's basically all off "experiences".

I haven't used it in years, and I wasn't doing super well at the time.

tbh am possibly too risk averse to have taken lsd on other medication myself, much less a-d. Depression sucks. Glad and hope you are doing better these days.

As far as i understand, psylocin and LSD have never been shown to be dangerous, in combination with any drug with possible exception to MAOI _maybe_. There are interactions that make it less intense and interactions that make it more intense. The only real danger is that you'll do something bad while in the state, not that the state will actually harm you.

So it's perfectly reasonable for someone to take a low dose of LSD while on antidepressants. The worst I've ever heard of occurring is that you just won't feel it at all. It's a targeted agonist of multiple serotonin receptors, i don't believe it actually releases any large flood of serotonin. Something like MDMA though _is_ very dangerous to take with SSRIs due to serotonin syndrome.

I've known many people to do psychedelics while on antidepressants and non of them have ever approached the levels of danger or concern that I've seen for people doing MDMA while not on anything else. The traditional psychedelics (LSD, shrooms) are remarkably safe and there's no reason to act like this person is being dumb or disingenuous for doing them in their circumstance. If you have research to the contrary I'd certainly welcome the opportunity to learn

I actually disagree somewhat.

So I likely overdid one particular month....

But I have (likely) permanent HPPD - particularly when I take my adhd meds I can get some motion inpainting, geometry visuals, and turning off the lights at night looks like a "shower of colors", and also white looks simultaneously red/blue/green/purple (the color you see after looking at a really bright light and looking away).

It's not currently causing issues for me but it is a real thing. MRI shows no abnormalities, eye exam also shows nothing odd. The visuals are almost identical to light lsd visuals. I'm 100% aware they aren't "real", none of my doctor's believe it's psychosis.

I'm also 100% convinced that chronic psychedelic and possibly chronic marijuana usage contributes to schizophrenia.

And I'm certain you can get real PTSD from a bad trip.

I have no idea what extent the medication combo did, but with or without antidepressents, I don't want to say it's "safe". I'm not saying it's dangerous, but I don't think it's harmless.

Also smoking marijuana with lsd makes it like 10x more intense, and I have a feeling that also has a chance at shifting the harm potential.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com