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Comment by jleyank | Hacker News Reader

Do they provide health insurance and other benefits, or is that all on your dime as well? One would think that service operations truly facing a staffing shortage would be a bit more interested in rewarding their workers. Maybe it’s not as bad as they’re saying? Does the author and other people working in such places see customers going unserved and food growing cold? If not, what’s the problem from the businesses point of view?

Might be bs, but: https://ca.talent.com/salary?job=mcdonalds#:~:text=The%20ave.... Remember that health care is provincial not employment connected.

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Looked up a Waffle House job listing in the Deep South. Looks like the answer is yes on health insurance:

Server

Requirements:

· Entry level, no experience required · Must have a positive and friendly attitude · Teens welcome but must be 16 years old +

Benefits:

· Dental insurance · Employee discount · Health insurance · Paid time off · Vision insurance

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Waffle-House/jobs?jk=a214a1778ba9...

Huge fractions of the US service industry are catastrophically understaffed right now, to the point where it's driving smaller businesses under. Somehow we seem to have developed a series of industries (from fast food to hotel cleaning to receptionist work) that entail a combination of low prices and labor intensiveness which is completely unsustainable when you pay people living wages. For years the labor market was weak and this worked out. Now it isn't, and many of these businesses don't make sense anymore. Presumably we could rebuild them with a more European model that's more automated and less dependent on replaceable super-cheap labor, but most likely we'll just rely on the Fed to engineer a recession.

>more European model that's more automated and less dependent on replaceable super-cheap labor

You see plenty of fairly obviously immigrants cleaning hotel rooms in Europe.

To some degree, higher labor costs can also drive efficiencies with no real harm to consumers. I'm perfectly fine with (and may even prefer) a weekly "serviced apartment" sort of hotel model rather than daily room cleanings which invariably happen when I'm on a call or something.

Going to assume that you have some level of price increase in mind that would not be considered a harm to consumers. What would that be?

I had no level of price increase in mind. (Obviously any increase has some harm at the margin.) Rather, I'm saying that certain services that cost money to provide--especially given higher labor costs--like daily room cleaning don't deliver much value, if any, to many consumers. Pre-pandemic some chains would even let you opt out in exchange for some points.

Ah, I see your point. I was stuck on the Waffle House story - in which almost all the a la carte freebies have already been teased out.

But if they start charging to use the Tabasco we're going to have a problem.

I would argue the notion of a living wage because that varies by locality even though the policies affecting it are rather universal.

At the end of the day, staffing shortages (outside of professions requiring unique scarce skills) are always about pay. But I know I'm not--and I assume most people won't be--paying arbitrarily large amounts for the privilege of eating out, especially at some local waffle house. Which is fine. There are lots of services I would like that I'm not willing to routinely pay what it would cost me to get.

My wife bought lunch for our son and his friend yesterday. $32 for a 6" sandwich, chips, a cookie, and bottled water at Subway (x2). $32 for barely better quality than a fucking Lunchable. Oh, and the POS system automatically presented a 15% tip in the payment screen.

Casual dining in America is not going to survive the next five years IMO. I know we will be doing our part to no longer support the system (we already quit McD's because it is almost $40 for our family of three to eat a meal there.)

Subway takes the cake of mass market chains that seem like they ought to be a lot better than they are.

I directionally agree with you. There are already a lot of relatively labor-intensive things in the West that even upper middle class people don't routinely have like personal drivers, chefs, and even housekeepers, or lawn care. Given demographic shifts, it wouldn't shock me if thoughtlessly eating out at fast food restaurants joined the list for a fair number of people. (More automation too though you can only do so much. Eating at home is generally going to be cheaper.)

The Western appetite for convenience is at all time highs. QSR growth is in the double digits YoY largely driven by app prevalence w.r.t. rewards and loyalty and delivery services. There was a slight downturn after re-opening from COVID, but it is back up to nominal levels.

You can’t print trillions of dollars and not expect prices to rise.

My casual take is prices of fast food has roughly doubled since this whole inflation thing took off. And they all have universally decided in the last month that a “large” drink is what was formerly the medium drink so double the price for less meal — not sure if that’s a “healthy choice” thing or they’re just being weasels though.

I’ve never once had subway try to get a tip out of me and I eat there fairly regularly, not even the “tip cup” that employees like to put out to guilt you into tipping for things like watching you use the automatic checkout robots.

—edit—

Oh, and McDonald’s is still semi-reasonable if you use their app (to get free stuff) and pay attention to whatever their current loss leaders are.

Yeah, I eat way too much fast food…

If you build an online order at the Subway website, you will see a line item for "Sandwich artist tip". In-person ordering has the same thing on the POS during checkout (like so many places do these days)

Your take seems way off.

Where do you live that it costs $16/person for Subway? This doesn't seem anything like a national average.

They paid $16/ea because a meal includes only a single “side” such as a cookie or chips with a fountain drink cup. Choosing bottled waters and additional sides probably added $5-6 each.

Subway, McDonald’s, whatever get you when you do add-ons.

Northern Illinois (not Chicago)

This seems to suggest you are paying well above average: https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/subway-prices/

Yet the queue at McDonalds and other fast food places here in Ontario are full. People adapt to what their situation presents. Perhaps there will be a messy transition in the US when jobs have or wish to reset their compensation?

Given the currency exchange rate US/Canada (per the Economist), Big Mac's are cheaper here than down South: https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index

Although there was an article from the Wall Street Journal just yesterday with data showing the sales at a lot of chains are still somewhat down. I do suspect that there are a lot of people with at least midrange incomes who will continue to eat out, even if only fast food, before they'll more seriously contemplate preparing meals at home.

>Perhaps there will be a messy transition in the US when jobs have or wish to reset their compensation?

I'd bet on more automation where practical and people just doing without--or doing without as often--certain things that have a large labor component.

About six months ago, Starbucks opened their THIRD store in our medium size town (~60k pop). It's a rare moment to not see a car in the drive thru line, and typically four or five cars. Crazy.

That's insane that they provide insurance ; it give you an idea of just how tight the labor market is in the U.S.

Around where I live the starting salary at McDonald's is $15.

Maybe this is inflation but that's a crazy amount of money.

Crazy on the low side? As I’ve seen quite a bit higher for just fast food line workers. Shift managers were advertising $25.50/hr

I'm saying crazy high. I don't know though - I don't really have a feel for it because of inflation but I have a teenage child making $20 an hour at a summer job and while they (because teenager) complain about being underpaid it seems to me like they're doing pretty OK.

Almost certainly not. Only a tiny number of similar jobs offer health care benefits. Waffle House is not a high profit place, I used to go there, they serve the blue collar crowd on a budget.

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