Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

Comment by crazygringo | Hacker News Reader

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I got rid of most of my LP's over the past few years as I realized I'd gradually just started to play them from Spotify instead (convenience slowly converted me), over the same speakers. Then I sold my turntable.

But I kept around 20 of my favorites and just rotate them for display on my bookshelf. If I'm playing one of them on Spotify, I'll even rotate to show that LP while I play it. The really bizarre thing is, there's a particular old album I'm thinking of purchasing just to be able to display its cover, because of what it means to me.

It's the same with books -- my favorite ones are in my bookshelf, but even if I read a book I own physically, I pull it up on my iPad because I prefer to be able to highlight, look up words, adjust text size, read in a dark room, etc.

So I'm shocked to discover that I like having the physical artifacts even when I still consume them digitally. It's almost like bringing back souvenir knick-knacks from a vacation. This is not an outcome I ever would have expected.

Patience! Try putting on a record and listening with friends or dancing to the beat with your significant other. Don't try to cherrypick just one song or conversely listen to endless AI generated mix while your mind is elsewhere. Afterwards, have a conversation about what the artist was trying to express and moments in your own life the songs reminded you of. THEN tell me you didn't have a unique experience compared to what Spotify provides you with.

Why can't you do that EACT same experience on spotify? You realize you can pick a specific album and play it in order correct? The only difference between the two is that with spotify you have options if you lack the self control to go for the experience you are suggesting.

Deliberate restriction is the point of still using a lot of analog media. You can't pop open another app on your book, you can't look at the photo you just took on film, and you can't easily skip a song on a record.

I find that hard to do myself. Spotify doesn't appear to have the same sequence as the LPs or even CDs. Another problem is finding original recordings on Spotify, mostly you find remasterings.

Of course, none of these matter if you just want to listen to music.

I can probably also recreate a grill burger in a microwave, even complete with burn marks somehow. But the real thing is inexpensive and easy to use, so why should I jump through the hoops? Also I have to wonder how long Spotify is going to exist or carry the albums I like. I can still play records made in the 80s with no issues.

Never been able to read the liner notes to each other and admire the photos in the interior of the album cover together on Spotify.

If digital liner notes were commonplace, you could at least look at them together on a tablet, even if that might still not be exactly the same thing.

As it is you can't really read the liner notes and admire any photos alone, either, unless you're hunting them down on Discogs or somewhere else, never mind together with somebody else, too.

The iTunes store in theory allows including a PDF booklet together with album purchases, but in practice it seems that albums that actually do include such a thing are almost as rare as hens' teeth.

Why can’t I resist the chocolate in the cupboard?

vinyl is like deciding not to buy the chocolate in the first place.

You need to be on the distraction machine (your laptop), inside the distraction amplifier (your browser) on a very distracting site. Similar it using the app or a phone.

The turntable can work with a literal digital detox (it is analog).

“You realise you can…”

Just admit that you don’t yet understand the other perspective. Resorting to this sort of snark really isn’t in service of reaching a shared understanding.

Often times we just try to prove that the other person's taste/preference does not make sense.

However that is a fool's errand: you can't convince me that I don't like chocolate, for example. I do!

True, most people doesn't find meaning in using vinyl records, others. Why do we have to prove that either of them is right/wrong?

Trying to understand the other's perspective is the way to go, if you care about getting closer to the truth.

How is this different from listening to an album on Spotify though?

In the case of many prog rock and similar albums of the late 60s 70s and 80s there are either significant (wrt to the pace of the audio tracks) 'silences' between tracks or no silences with fade out and fade in audio layers ...

The digital versions of a number of these albums have 'clipped' tracks - with a sharp start point | end point and some arbitrary generic silence length (of 0 - N ms) between them.

Seems like a minor thing but it is noticable to those of us that once listened to vinyl albums and the "between track" transition is arguably as much of the overall product as originally delivered as each individual track and track ordering.

It shouldn't be, but it is.

The very act, the very ritual of starting a record playing changes the experience, even if everything else is exactly the same. You don't interact with music the same way.

Smoking a cigarette/cigar/pipe vs. slapping on a nicotine patch.

People enjoy smoking because of many other elements besides the nicotine fix.

With records versus streaming it’s interesting because the experience during the “main event” is nearly identical. Certainly closer than a book versus an e-reader or a cigar versus nicotine. It’s the entry and exit that’s different.

The auditory input is the same…pretty much. Most other aspects of the experience are different.

The fact it's a record and you can't pause/rewind keeps you less distracted. It really is a different experience even if you "simulated it" and had the machine play the right digital file once you loaded a particular record.

It also completely gets rid of skips and shuffle-play. And a song can't "grow on you" if you always skip it.

There is literally nothing stopping you from pausing/rewinding/fast fowarding/shuffling a record.

You have to get up and move the stylus; I’ve never seen a record player that could shuffle on its own.

Especially a pipe...scraping out the bowl, cleaning the pipe's stem with a pipe cleaner, tamping in the new tobacco.

Some small rituals can be calming and centering.

Similarly manual shaving vs electric.

Also see making coffee versus Nespresso.

Although I like to tell myself that the old fashioned way is objectively better with coffee.

I don’t think that’s a great example - with good beans and a good grinder and machine, you should be able to do miles better than Nespresso. Even the larger pod systems have quite a small quantity of grounds so tend towards over-extraction for a decent sized shot.

Great example - my Moccamaster since I bought it few months ago is used ten times more than capsule machine that stands next to it. And I'm not sure if the coffe is really better - but it does not matter because the morning ritual makes the experience so much better, that I cannot imagine going back to capsules.

Coffee capsules' business model relies on convenience to create unnecessary waste. Capsules of coffee taste worse and provide no improvement whatsoever. Why do this? Marketing creates a fake need, even though better solutions to brew coffee already exist. It's all about marketing convenience without innovation. You pay a higher tax for unnecessary capsule packaging, additional pollution, and waste.

Yes! I make pour over coffee almost every morning. It's a ritual where I take a few minutes of quiet and plan my day.

> dancing to the beat with your significant other

That usually causes the needle to skip! And the danger with disco records is feedback from the speakers to the needle.

Bollocks it does. :P

Club culture was built around people dancing to music played on turntables. Specifically Technics SL1200 mk2 or SL1210 mk2 which only have a very little suspension in their feet.

If you run in mono and there will be almost no feedback no matter how loud you play or how close to the speakers you are.

Since one of the audio channels is inverted when recorded any signal feeding back will be cancelled out when the re-inverted signal is combined.

This is why old DJ mixers from people like Pioneer used have a prominent Stereo/Mono switch.

There's no real soundstage on a dance floor so you don't miss the stereo.

In the really cool venues, back in the day, they used crossovers to move just the high-hats or percussion to a specific speaker array hanging over the centre of the dance floor and have the mids and bass somewhere else but it would always be from a mono signal never stereo.

Source: Phono.

Aux Source: I worked as a DJ way back when and have experience of very loud systems in front of large crowds of dancing people. I've also played many a sketchy flat where everything was balanced on milk crates on wooden floorboards.

Tape Source: my Dougal @ Vibealite tape where the MC keeps telling the crowd to move back because they are making the needles jump.

Been DJing and running our own sound for years and years.

You 100% can get feedback from the sound when DJing. It’s guaranteed if you’ve enough bass. We put the decks on concrete slabs which in turn are on 4 squash balls to deal with it.

What do you mean by “one it channels is inverted when recorded”??

I mean on record one of the channels L or R is inverted (I forget which) before it’s cut.

The phono pre-amp will re-inver it as part of its function.

When you combine L+R after preamp to make mono the feedback signal from one channel will be combined with inverted feedback signal from the other channel and cancel out.

Try it and be amazed. Audio engineers have known this trick since the dawn of disco.

> Bollocks it does.

I speak from experience!

Look into a suspension design like Thorens or AR. You can stomp on the floor, strike the platform supporting the turntable with a hammer, etc and it won't skip.

To avoid this outcome I started a family tradition where we play a record every time we sit down at the dinner table to eat. We take turns picking an album and let guests pick when we have guests.

How many album sides per dinner? Or is all food 20-minutes-ish long?

Most meals take <= 20 mins to eat.

I barely get the Happy Meal down.

Might I guess that the albums are either Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin? Even when I listen to those two digitally, I like to see the album cover. That has been ingrained as part of the experience for me.

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