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From your long description of the travails of using your phone with a terminal, I’m not sure you know this: you can double-click the power button at any time, and it will do Face ID and pre-approve a transaction - _then_ you can hold it to the terminal to pay.

I’m imagining you, from the description, holding the phone to the terminal then trying to frame your face so that Face ID can see it - which works, but is as annoying as you seem to be describing.

I cannot say I have ever encountered any of the problems you describe and I use Apple Pay daily to pay for everything. Just double tap the power button before paying and hold it to the terminal, it takes like 2 seconds.

I just switched from a Google Pixel 5 and while I still use Apple Pay, I've gotta say that fingerprint + scan is way faster than {double tap + faceid + scan}. The friction of Apple's approach is _almost_ enough to make me pull out my card instead depending on how well FaceID is working that day for me.

I wonder if the friction comes from holding the phone too far away when you're doing the Face ID scan.

I double-tap and Face ID scan right in front of me first, then I hold it out and tap on the reader. It always works and there's hardly any delay. Fishing my credit card out of my back wallet takes 2 seconds longer.

That said, nowadays I use my Apple Watch and that's even faster -- double click the side button, and tap. (No Face ID at all)

For me it's:

1. Long hair can sometimes get in my face, making FaceID unreliable

2. Camera angle in the "tap" position is not the angle it needs to be in for the FaceID unlock. I often double click then try to tap my phone, only to remember that I need to FaceID unlock.

I can’t speak to 1 but for 2 the routine is auth first, tap later. Double click, hold up to face, then hold to reader.

Also two things: if you’re willing to accept a less secure Face ID you can turn off attention (1). And if you’re paying for transit, you can turn on Express transit if supported on your provider — then it’s just tap, no need to auth.

(1) https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/face-id-attention-iph...

There’s always the iPhone SE

Same; also, it’s just a double-press on the side button on my Apple Watch and the Wallet comes right up.

Great when you’re in self-checkout in a busy supermarket…

Agreed. Both scenarios are similar. I wouldn't say one is inherently better than the other:

1. grab wallet from pocket, find card, align card to tap to pay target

2. grab phone from pocket, double tap phone side button while looking at it, align phone to tap to pay target

It also depends what you already have out. If you already have your wallet or phone out (wherever your store loyalty card is), that mode (wallet or phone) is that much easier

Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US, Apple Pay (and similar) came several years earlier. If you live in a place where tap cards came first, use of Apple Pay is much lower for obvious reasons.

Since I got tap on my latest credit card I'm actually using it more than Apple Pay. Not because of convenience, but because there's zero reason for me to hand over my purchase information to Apple for free.

All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal.

One of the notable features of the Apple Card is that it is the only credit card available in America that promises not to sell your private information or transaction history.

I would trust my data to Apple more than any other financial institution.

Yeah, but this article is about Apple Pay, not Apple Card.

If you have a card with someone else and you use Apple Pay, your information is sent to both Apple and your bank. If you just use the card, only your bank gets it. I can't stop my bank from doing whatever with the data, but there's no reason for Apple to get that data from me for free. Sure, it might be smarter to switch banks, but if you're unable to do that, why give Apple the data as well?

> Do remember that card with tap functionality are pretty new in the US

I've had cards with tap functionality since 2006 or so. And not any fancy card, my Amex Blue Cash has this in the late 2000s.

> All that said, when I do use Apple Pay, I double-click the phone first to unlock the card and then tap the phone to the terminal. That sequence makes the whole thing much less awkward, because you don't have to click and make sure the phone can faceid-unlock while you're holding it in a weird angle on the terminal.

Ya, that’s why Apple Watches are so much easier for Apple Pay than using iPhones.

I'm currently in a developing nation, unable to buy much variety of goods or services, and keenly aware of just how incredible it is to be discussing fractional seconds of transaction time for something that is – for me currently – either 1) several weeks of very expensive shipping away or 2) requires sending someone to the capital to train in the expertise.

I don't mean to dismiss the attention to microseconds (I'm an advocate for continuous improvement, after all)... I'd just like to share this fresh/broad perspective.

When you are standing in a line of people, and they're all waiting on you, there's a bit of pressure (real or imagined) to not be the one wasting everyone else's time.

Given the option between tapping a card, which Just Works, and fussing with Apple Pay that (in their experience) doesn't, the obvious choice is to not bother with using apple pay.

That's not to say that your perspective isn't informative, but rather that the original complaint likely comes from a place of social stress rather than fractional seconds being the issue.

Imagined. No one is noticing how many seconds it takes you to pay. They notice if the cashier has to call a manager, or if you are using some coupon that doesn’t scan or something that interrupts the normal flow of a transaction. They’re not noticing that you’re taking 20 seconds to find a credit card or unlock your phone.

If they are in a developing country, QR code payments are more likely, which is like take out your phone, open your payment app and take a picture of the code…a lot more complex than Apple Pay or anything related to NFC, but also cheaper since the hardware is really cheap (just normal smart phones).

Sorry, every complaint about apple pay is someone not using a watch on a card they use for most things. I lived in Europe the last three years up until moving back to the US recently, and in Europe, there was simply nothing easier than double clicking the watch button, and hovering over the NFC payment device. Even since moving back, I find it almost a rarity a place doesn't accept that and all it took was changing the primary card back to a US one.

If you're on Apple's ecosystem, and not using the watch, you're missing out. All of the criticism of walled gardens are certainly relevant, but even with the iPhone only (or, hey, when I forget to charge the watch for two days) I can do the same thing with the same double click and the extra step of FaceId-ing the phone.

Meanwhile card skimmers are no longer a fear, I don't have to put a zip code in to get gas in my car, and as a side benefit, most UI's on payment devices haven't figured out how to beg for tips with apple pay yet (yet). As I understand it the android experience is almost identical. I now only carry a single card, my debit card, which is a back up in case I really need cash for something and an ATM is my only option. I don't see anything inconvenient about that.

I just don’t want to have another thing to charge every day or two. Until Apple makes an eink watch or can somehow stretch the battery life to a week without compromising features I’m not interested.

I have an amazfit bip with an e-ink screen that I last charged 27 days ago, still have 16% battery life, and it serves its main purpose of showing me notifications for my apps (mind you not all of them) and tracking my sleep and steps.

While I agree about the awkwardness of the phone, I’ve found my Apple Watch to be extremely convenient as a way to pay. Simply double click the side button without needing to look and tap it on the reader. Doesn’t get easier than that. And like someone else said, it makes having many payment options available without fattening your wallet. Costco for example, only takes Mastercards in canada and I don’t use the master card anywhere else

Costco in the US used to only take American Express, and then only Visa (when they partnered with Visa) and now you can just use anything. In Iceland they take everything because the idea that they wouldn't is just a cultural headscratcher to a citizenship that has all of 3 banking options. I suspect they have a special business or "pro" membership that includes a mastercard option there? That was the old motivation before they gave up on it here.

Costco in the US only accepts Visa credit payments in store. And it looks line they do not accept American Express at all.

https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8525509

That’s precisely what they are trying to do - they have an “executive” tier that has a bank associated Mastercard

I don't see the cost-benefit justification when an Apple watch costs $400-$800 and is (at least IMO) is yet another device to complicate my life and invade my privacy.

The Apple Watch SE is $249, Series 8 is $400. Used version 5, 6 or 7’s can be had for $200. (I picked up a refurbished version 5 off Amazon for ~$200.) I find that the Apple Watch simplifies my life. I have all notifications turned off except for meeting reminders and texts from my spouse. I leave my phone at my desk and no longer carry it with me around thee house or work. Apple Pay works beautifully, allowing me to leave my phone at home to pop over to the grocery store. The timer is convenient for cooking and reminders. As a recreational runner, it has replaced my Garmin. The sleep tracker works well. To my knowledge, it transmits no additional data to Apple than the iPhone itself. And it keeps time. All in all, a worthy investment.

You must be a very important person. Better not go to any stores then because they have cameras everywhere that will invade your privacy too.

One bad thing existing does not justify other bad things.

And no, I'm a nobody.

Everyone in the replies is talking about Apple and the Apple Watch. I personally have a Pixel 5A which has a dedicated fingerprint reader on the back. I unlock it before it even leaves my pocket, scan on the turnstile, and I'm through. No fucking around with face unlock. It's great. And I've tried the newer Pixel screen-embedded fingerprint unlock and it seems worse.

Seconded. The fingerprint reader on the back was the ideal design, and the screen-embedded reader is objectively worse in ergonomics and reliability. And having the phone unlocked before it's even out of your pocket is so much less frictionless than clunky, gimmicky FaceID.

The user experience of Apple Pay on an iPhone with Touch ID is effortless. Apple really took a step backwards with FaceID. Couldn’t have been a worse time for it either.

I have the opposite experience. Touch ID doesn't work well in regions that experience cold dry winters -- when my fingers are dry, Touch ID doesn't read. (I have 5 fingerprints from different angles stored -- no dice). Not to mention it doesn't work when wearing gloves.

Face ID on the other hand works almost all the time, even with a face mask on (iPhone 13 and later only)

I'm with you. Touch ID is great for people in perfect climates who don't do anything difficult in their life.

My entire motivation to upgrade from a touch ID phone to face ID is my main complaints with touch ID: 1 - it sucks with gloves, and I'm wearing gloves a lot either because it's cold or I'm riding a bike. I still get annoyed some gloves I can't tell it to "start" the unlock process but gross or not, my tongue does the job there to kick in face ID recognition. 2 - I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step.

Guided access via the accessibility shortcut is a good way to force the screen to stay on. Go onto the accessibility settings, enable Guided Access, and tell it to activate when you triple click the power button. Then when you’re in an app and you don’t want it to turn off, triple click the power button, select options, disable the power button, and start. It’s also great for locking other aspects of the phone if you’re going to hand it to someone else for example.

After messing with it a little, that does almost exactly what I want. I do wish it would just allow faceID to exit guided mode and not a passcode, but I'll take it - thank you.

> I am cooking and working off a recipe on my phone which (by the way I would love to be able to temporarily set "don't shut down mode") and I have to unlock it with messy hands to set the next step.

I haven't really used either of these, but maybe a solution could be created by setting up a custom Focus and then creating a Shortcut that activates with that focus and that does something to ensure the screen remains on; maybe a loop with a certain action or a change in settings. I am not sure since I haven't used shortcuts, just skimmed for a min before commenting.

> Digital transit cards like the new digital wallet clipper card in the bay area are cool though

Until they say "oh yeah, today it doesn't work on Android".. or "it doesn't work on certain Androids"... what the actual fuck? San Francisco/Bay Area, tech capital of the world, can't get their shit transit's pass to be cross-platform?

A month ago, two Android phones that both work for everything possible in multiple EU countries, one just doesn't work for Clipper, trying to use the card says "invalid card". And of course there is no check before you add money to it, so you're stuck with money on the card you can't get out of without going to one specific office that might be able to help you (different people said different things)

This is a weird thing I notice with a lot of American tech. Stuff first gets brought to market somewhere around Silicon Valley and amazing technologies are invented all across the country, but when it comes to reliably rolling out such tech it just seems to get stuck somewhere.

Meanwhile over here in Europe we have to wait a couple of years for tech to come over, but when it finally does, it seems to work almost universally.

You'd expect that stuff managed in software would get its patches way before European implementations receive them in their improved form, but it's as if this stuff just gets rolled out once in the USA and then never gets looked after again. I'd be incredibly frustrated seeing other countries get some frustrating details right when the tech was invented in my own country!

By contrast, I do not carry a wallet typically, and Apple Pay on my watch is my standard approach. Places that don’t accept it just don’t get my business, and it is vastly quicker than searching through a wallet for the card I want.

I use apple pay a fair bit since it means I don't need to carry my wallet, but when I have my wallet with me, I do find it much more convenient to tap the card.

Android lets you tap and pay without re-authenticating, I wish apple would allow the same.

Apple pay on the web is also very convenient, whenever I visit some cafe that has a QR code menu, it saves me entering in my card details.

Doesn't Apple let you pay without re-authenticating if you use an Apple Watch, so long as you don't take it off? I don't have one, but this is my recollection of their messaging.

This is correct. Once you authenticate once on Apple Watch (either with PIN or by allowing your phone unlock it once you are wearing it) you can Apple Pay to your heart's content until you next take the watch off.

Yeah, using Apple Pay isn't a slam dunk if you have one card you use for everything, and always have with you. Where it shines is that it can relieve you from having to carry around three credit cards (gas, grocery, everything else), a warehouse membership card, retail club card, etc.

Yeah, the only reason I use it at all is for my less frequently used cards for special purposes. Cards I wouldn’t normally carry with me in my wallet, but it’s nice to have in case I randomly need them. So it’s nice to have the option, I just don’t understand how anyone would expect Apple Pay to replace the simplicity of credit cards for normal high-volume transactions.

This is so alien to me. I’ve been using Apple Pay for years. I don’t even know where my wallet is half the time. I certainly don’t carry it on my person. If you have an Apple Watch it’s even faster.

Your complaint is about FaceID, not Apple Pay.

I tap the side button twice, then enter a passcode whilst the cashier is scanning the items. I then scan my phone when it’s time. Maybe taking a card out is 3 seconds faster but I haven’t benchmarked.

Face ID is annoying but still better than card. Touch ID is best for payment.

If you already have your phone in your hand it’s faster for sure come on

Between the face ID part, the awkward interaction for selecting the card, and the inconsistency for loading the wallet app, I disagree in my personal experience. Plus, how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere? Realistically, I’m either taking my phone out of one pocket or my wallet out of a different pocket, there’s not a huge difference in time or effort. And one of them I know will work quickly and seamlessly, the other one works most of the time with a few extra steps.

> the awkward interaction for selecting the card

Do you juggle a lot of different cards? My guess is that most people have a default.

> how often do you have your phone in your hand when you’re checking out somewhere?

Pretty much always when I’ve been in line at the grocery store.

I agree with you. My guess is these people are a bit older and have different habits. Also lmao at “awkward interaction for selecting the card” as if people don’t have to select the card out of their physical wallet in the same way?

Personally, I sometimes have my phone in my hand already. If I don't, then I can usually use my Apple Watch. If not, then yes, Apple Pay with Face ID is a bit inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as carrying around a wallet everywhere would be.

In the past, I encountered credit card readers that wouldn't work with Apple Pay often enough that walking around without a physical credit card felt like a gamble. These days it doesn't.

Hands can be used for other things than holding an iphone.

I occasionally have those frustrations but for me, leaving without my wallet is worth it. Most places I go I don’t need it unless I need my ID for booze or something (technically could pull that up on my phone but not sure who accepts it even when it’s actually valid legal ID)

> when it’s actually valid legal ID

Source on this very questionable statement?

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212940

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/10/07/iphone-wallet-ids-which...

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first...

> Earlier this year, Apple launched a feature allowing residents of participating U.S. states

The state has to participate… The article lists 3 states, and a bar isn't a state.

Thanks -- I have a iPhone but don't use Apple Pay. No way do I want to connect my phone to my bank account, and in any other respect I have not been able to imagine how it's better than a credit card.

I've seen people fiddling with their phones trying to pay for stuff, reminds me of the days when you'd get behind someone trying to write out a check.

> Sometimes new technology is really just overcomplicating things.

Wholeheartedly agree. There's nothing about paying for something at a point of sale that needs fixing with additional technology.

I guess it’s a matter of perspective.

I’ve seen people fiddling with their purse/wallet searching for the right credit card, backing up the checkout line, while others breeze through with phones/watches that they already have in hand.

Lolol, my experience with my Target card where I have to unlock my password manager, autofill my creds and scan a barcode, sounds just like the same kind of fumbling.

Assigning Google Pay to my double press shortcut on my wake button is way less effort.

I guess, if it works for you. I don't even take my phone with me half the time if I'm just running to get milk and eggs.