If everyone refused to buy with a HOA, then they would vanish in new builds, and could even be uniformly voted to disband in old builds.
But apparently some like HOAs (don't ask me why).
If your neighborhood hires landscapers, or has a pool, or you share literally any part of the building structure, then an HOA comes into play. Often new developments have private roads that need maintenance, snow clearing, etc.
This is because small local governments are often too cash poor to foot the additional road maintenance, utilities, etc so they want to offload the cost to the developers/ the developers customers.
I don’t understand how this could be true.
I’m in Auckland, New Zealand and don’t have a housing association.
I pay about US$1500 per year in property tax. It covers rubbish collection, library access, street cleaning, park maintenance, subsidised public transport (which is an abysmal service) etc.
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/property-rates-valuation...
The size of the house isn’t as important as the value. If you’re laying $14k/year in property taxes, your house is likely appraised for $1-1.5M.
Nationally speaking, Decatur has pretty low property taxes. Especially since you’re probably a short distance from the Brick Store Pub.
The HOA does have significant common areas including a pool and park that has been there since the beginning. It also has hilly open spaces that require annual weed and brush clearing for fire breaks. These areas also have landslide potential with drainage and retaining wall engineering issues, which adds to both contractor costs and also increases insurance premiums for the HOA.
My parents bought their house new for under $45k in 1975 and are currently assessed at under $170k based on the Prop 13 logic. It's hard to say what the market value is since recently sold homes in the area have had significant remodeling compared to my parents' time-capsule, but I imagine they could get nearly $1M. They probably represent the lower limit of assessments in their neighborhood. Most neighboring houses have been resold and reset to market rates at least once in the past 50 years, or at least done some major renovations which also partially increase the assessment for tax purposes.
There are people who own condos in my region who pay $900/month in HOA fees on top of $900/month in property taxes.
As you say, that’s a massive difference.
And if it’s getting tricky, you can usually find a politician who is sympathetic and will bend the rules for you.
Thiel managed 12 days here before citizenship came though, but if you aren’t as rich as him I’m sure we could come to an arrangement.
If working here, you’ll be alarmed by the low wages, high housing costs (for low quality housing) and high cost of living. However bad you think it is, it’s worse.
But other stuff is great!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...
The typical argument on this site here is: Europe doesn't have a thriving tech center because of high taxes. The HOAs and stuff like that is a consequence of the different tax burden. So I guess your total taxability is lower than ours shrug
It all comes down to luck of the draw.
Someone who wants a place quieter than the noise level the city enforces can find a development with an HOA that sets a lower level. Someone who is particularly sensitive to smoke can find a development that bans outdoor fires on more days than the city does.
As long as an HOA is only limiting things that actually affect other people and maintaining common property, and it is legally structured in a way that prevents scope creep (or ensures that existing owners are grandfathered if new restrictions are imposed), I don't see anything inherently wrong with having an HOA.
Sometimes I even break the rules and put my garbage bins out too early and leave them out too late and I’ve never heard a word about it.
There was even a foreclosed house in the neighborhood that was increasingly unmaintained, and the HOA hounded the bank and got them to take better care of the property until it was finally sold.
Overall, our HOA is a net positive.
I also was part of an HOA for 4-unit condo building I lived in previously. It was perfectly fine and its purpose and necessity was very apparent.
I’m sure there are nightmare HOAs out there, just like there are nightmare neighbors in places with no HOA.
We are witnessing this right now, having not moved from our townhome. First decade was great, everyone follow the rules, HOA cared about the look of our properties and kept everyone in check. Then HOA stopped sending letters about the dirty facades. Then the neighbors one by one all decided its okay to leave their garbage cans out even though the bylaws specifically forbid this. Then they cut back on services they offer (illegal parking is only enforced during HOA business hours, no more landscape maintenance), they stopped enforcement (neighbor has 4 pets, facades haven't been cleaned in 5-6 years, trash and toys are being left in the shared driveway). The final slap in the face, we got an email last month saying they are raising the HOA fee by 25%.
Unlike socialism, I can politic my way into the board and demand change. Which looks like something I'm going to have to do to get back the HOA (and property) that I loved
> Unlike socialism, I can politic my way into the board and demand change.
That sounds like the definition of socialism. What do you mean?
They might hire out property management duties to an outside firm
I have no idea what an HOA has to do at all with socialism, apart from the fact both involve groups of people.
Aside from that, an HOA functions as well as it is run. It sounds like the folks running yours aren't all the invested in it or don't have the same priorities as you. The solution is, as you stated, being the one to try and make the change by joining the HOA leadership.
In my case, I don't have that issue, and the HOA is a few years past 30 running now. I suppose I'm lucky that there's enough homeowners in the neighborhood who are both will and able to run things to an acceptable standard.
When I bought my first house, I was adamant that I didn’t want an HOA. Over the next ten years the neighborhood went to crap. I ended up living next to neighbors who didn’t maintain their yards, parked junker cars on their lawn and let their houses go to trash.
When I moved, I specifically wanted an HOA. After five years, I still love my HOA. Mostly for two reasons. First, other neighbors here generally have the same mind set and care about their most expensive possession. Second when someone starts letting things slide the HOA slaps ‘‘em on the wrist.
I live in north Seattle area where non-HOA homes are priced higher than HOA homes. The area has a couple of older somewhat rundown houses and no one cares. Prices are still at least $100k higher than the new builds with HOAs on the next block. So there goes the old excuse for maintaining home value.
I want to live in a neighborhood with others who feel the same way.
To your second point, yes, not all HOAs are great. If you frequent fark.com, you'll find multiple threads per month about some terrible thing an HOA is doing. But, that's why you do your due diligence when selecting an HOA. You carefully read the CC&Rs before signing on the house, you talk to others in the neighborhood before moving in. Much like selecting an insurance plan. For example, my HOA is setup so that leadership fully rotates every 3 years, with the rotations staggered. Worst case we get bad leadership for 1 year. Though, so far, in the in the 15 years the HOA has existed, they've done nothing but enforce rules everyone has agreed to. (Well that, and they killed off a bunch of common-area grass by hiring the cheapest lawn care they could find. )
> they've done nothing but enforce rules everyone has agreed to
But that's not really true is it? Most people buying a house in America do not have access to HOA by-laws until after signing. It's increasingly hard to even find homes that don't belong to a HOA unless you have the financial means to buy wherever you like. Plus, HOAs aren't opt-in/out either.
It doesn't matter if a majority of you decide on rules, unless the same majority is willing to fork out money to pay my mortgage+taxes, Idgaf what you have to say.
> I want to live in a neighborhood with others who feel the same way.
If you really believe this, you can go ahead and disband the HOA. You don't need to enforce with a stick if this is really the case.
This is not true
But you generally have to ask for them when you make the offer, or the law doesn’t protect you.
Redfin, Zillow disclose HOA fees. Nothing prevents the buyer or their agent from requesting docs or calling the HOA directly
But the main thing, is that you have to ask for the docs at the very start, or those laws don’t really protect you.
I know John Oliver mentioned in his HOA segment that this is sometimes the case, but it's definitely not "most" locations and I actually don't know where it is true (wish he had clarified).
It's definitely not true in Massachusetts, New Hampshire or California because I'm familiar with the real estate laws of those states.
But they also aren’t allowed to monitor grass height and whatnot.
But that’s the big thing with all construction. It’s super, super regulated. It’s probably the most heavily regulated thing there is… what gets built is the small subset of things that can both work financially and get approved. If you got on the right merry go round early enough, it’s great. It’s probably the biggest thing creating inequality.
The irony is that long term, many HOAs hurt property values. But supposedly they exist to enhance property values.