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Comment by jacooper | Hacker News Reader

Another note, one of the main ideas of Ramadan is to experience the struggle of the poor, who can't find food to eat.

> its purpose being to cleanse the soul by freeing it from harmful impurities. Muslims believe that Ramadan teaches them to practice self-discipline, self-control,[65] sacrifice, and empathy for those who are less fortunate, thus encouraging actions of generosity and compulsory charity (zakat).[66]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan

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Hate to be that guy, but that's not at all what Islam says about why fasting was prescribed, and it's actually super clear about the purpose. I mean this is pretty basic, so I don't know why I keep hearing that same old line.

"O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may develop God-consciousness." https://quran.com/2/183

There are multiple interpretations for this, tqawa can include helping the poor.

(In Arabic) https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/232635/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8...

I am not a religious scholar, but wouldn't God-consciousness include having empathy for all beings? I would partially define being enlightened as being able to experience everything in creation.

I'm not a religious scholar either, but if we're discussing what Islam says is the purpose of fasting, then yeah it couldn't be clearer in that verse. If you want to derive a sense of compassion for all beings from the idea of God-consciousness/piety/taqwa, then yeah you may have a point that it is a secondary effect of fasting, but Arabic has adequate expressiveness to cater for that if that was the prime motive, so I disagree that that is the central reason for fasting.

As an Arabic speaker, the verse in the Qur'an means to me that fasting helps you remember Allah.

Islam has no concept of empathy for all beings, or enlightenment really. The assumption is that without the fear of God and Hell, people would sin by default, and religious practices are meant to please God.

Often progressive Muslims mention Sufis but they have been persecuted enough, for holding God-consciousness type beliefs amongst others, to consider them a different thing altogether.

> wouldn't God-consciousness include having empathy for all beings?

A rabbit or a fruit isn't going to appreciate your understanding of its worldly struggles while you eat them, so why does it even matter?

Do you have a source beyond your own "clear" interpretation of this verse? I think if you dig deeper you will find that it's what the tradition says, what the recognized commentary on these verses say, and certainly if you ask Muslims what they think it's about, this is what they'll point to. That matters too.

I'm not interpreting the verse, I'm telling you what's there, just read the verse, go through all the various translations. No interpretation necessary. Like I said, Arabic is adequately expressive to just say "fasting is about reminding you poor people are suffering" if that's what the purpose was. No need to equivocate. Even the commentary is secondary to what the verse actually clearly says. If a verse says "God is One", do we really need a commentary to point out where there could be room for 2 Gods?

Quran isn't like normal Arabic. Its interpreted differently.

UK Midlands city of a million, neighbourhood close to city centre with a majority(?) Muslim population drawn from diverse ethnic traditions.

The guys with the buckets have been out on most main roads all through the month - respectfully offering the chance to donate - no 'compulsion' in evidence. People are generous round here. I pop my coins in and others are putting in fivers and tenners.

Definitely party time here at the moment. Excited children and huge amounts of food being cooked.

As I understand it, ‘compulsory’ here means that it’s a religious obligation, in general, not that it is legally enforced.

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