Comment by ThomPete | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ThomPete | Hacker News Reader

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There is much to be said about this. Personally the story is extra important as I am about to do probably the exact opposite.

I am 38, have a son at 2 and a girlfriend. Co-founded a company in 2005 here in copenhagen and grew it to 60 people in 2008 and now around 30.

March 1st I am out of there. I sold my shares in stable company and is going to New York and work with another company there.

I will leave my son and GF back in cph and hopefully convince them to move with me later on. Until then its going to be 3 weeks out of every month in NY.

It's not a rational choice it's certainly not a 100% a popular choice.

But my take on this is a little different than Jeffs and that is perhaps because I still feel I have something to prove :)

But I am thinking that even though I want to be around my son I also want to be more than a dad for my son. This I believe is going to be important especially when he grow older.

Perhaps if I did a huge exit I would think differently, perhaps I am being selfish.

But life is short and complicated and at least for now this seems to be the right thing to do all things taken into consideration.

I know this is highly subjective but I would think that every son would like for his father to be above all, a dad. I wouldn't give a fuck if you drove two mercedes instead of one or if you gave away a billion dollars to cancer research if you couldn't find the time to play LEGO with me. Just my opinion, and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.

It's a really complicated question.

My dad went the other route - he had an MIT Ph.D in nuclear chemistry and gave up his career to be a dad. He was always, always there to play LEGO with me or take me to the playground or drive me around to after school activities. And I really, really appreciated that - I probably appreciate it more now that I'm grown and he's dead.

The thing is - he still had something to prove, and because he had given up his professional life for me, he transferred that need to prove something onto me. And so for most of my childhood, I felt like I had to do well in school, and when I grew up it was up to me to win that Nobel Prize that he never had a shot at. And it went like that until I was in around middle school, at which point I basically said "Fuck that shit" and started sabotaging myself just to prove to everyone that I wasn't this super-genius who was destined to change the world.

And that wasn't really fair to me either.

I don't think it's really a matter of outcomes, of affording the big mansion in a gated community. I think that every kid deserves to have a dad who can be proud of who he is and what he's accomplished in life. If you can honestly feel that you're not giving up anything to be with your kids, but rather gaining something, then you should do it. But if you would otherwise be bitter and resentful for what you couldn't accomplish in life - it's better to have an absent dad than a bitter one.

Thank you for sharing your story. I tend to do this (attempt to transfer my failed dreams onto my kids), and it's helpful to have such a powerful reminder of how selfish and unfair that is. Thank you.

Wow, this was exactly what my dad did. He also was very well educated, and he also became bitter by his sacrifices as I got older. I came to appreciate his sacrifice when I became a father but I promised to never blame my kids for any choices I make. The difference between my father and myself is that I already feel like I have proved enough by becoming a father. If I died today, I would have no regrets. He passed away at 56 when I was in college and I know he had regrets. Like you said, I would rather have had an absent father than a bitter one too.

What would have been the correct balance for you Dad to strike between working and being with you?

Ideally, I would've liked it if he had done exactly what he did do up until about age 8 or 9, and then gone back to work. As I grew up, my needs shifted from someone who would love me unconditionally and give me lots of attention to a role-model who could teach me how to interact with the outside world, and someone whose life is completely coupled to yours is neither the best role model nor someone who knows a whole lot about the outside world.

The trick is not to go for success at all costs so you don't "have something to prove" which you force on your kids, it's to grow out of the need to "have something to prove." It's possible, and will result in less wasted time and fewer tears.

But it's often much easier to grow out of that need if you've made a sincere effort to actually go for it.

I founded a startup at age 25. Worked my ass off on it for a year and a half. It failed and went nowhere, as many startups do.

But I felt that in many ways, the experience set me free. I'd kinda coasted through school, college, and my first job half-assing whatever work I felt like, because I figured that at some indefinite point in the future, I'd found a startup and become a millionaire, and so nothing I did really mattered. Whenever things didn't work out, there was always some reason - "The material wasn't challenging" or "The professor didn't like me" or "It's not what I want to do anyway" or "We're using the wrong technology stack" to explain it away.

When it was just me & my cofounder though, the material was challenging, it was what I wanted to do, there was nobody else to blame, and if we were using the wrong technology stack, I damn well better change it.

So even though it didn't work out, I felt that I gave it my best effort and made a sincere shot at it. And that set me free to give my best effort on other things, because really, the consequences of it not working out were pretty minor (I got hired by Google). It wasn't the outcome that mattered, it was the process of figuring out what I was capable of when I really put my mind to it.

I'd much rather figure that out at 27, when I'm single, living like a college student, and have my whole career ahead of me, than when I'm 40 with a couple kids, a mortgage, and a string of dead-end jobs behind me. And I'd much rather figure it out at 40 than when I'm dead.

Especially at the age of 2. I have two boys, 4 and 2, and have spent the past 2 years with a 5 hour a day commute. It is not uncommon for the 4 yr old to ask if I can stay home in the morning. They care more about visibility and don't understand the connection between working hard for comfortable lifestyle yet.

After 2 years of my crazy commute for a higher paycheck, the paycheck doesn't quite feel as justified.

>..a 5 hour a day commute

Wow, and I thought my 3 1/2-4hour commute was bad. If you live anywhere near a big city I suggest switching jobs. If you're a programmer the market is amazing out there. It has two weeks of very lazy job hunting and have found a new job that is closer, more pay, way better benefits and environment.

I work in SF, but live ~2.5 hours away by Stockton. Moving isn't an option, family is important and we have tons of family within 5 mins. However, the nice Ruby jobs are in SF. There are dev jobs in Sacramento, but it is mostly government stuff and not as attractive. Most interesting jobs are in startups, but most nearby startups want people in the office.

Though I am working on going out on my own, since I don't plan to keep the commute up long term.

"we have tons of family within 5 mins."

You don't, your family is 2.5 hours away from where you spend most of your day.

I think it's quite hard to see the damage a commute like that is doing at the time, when you look back at it later you will wonder why you put up with it so long.

There is a difference between "we" and "you". Yes, I am not 5 mins away during the day, however my wife and kids are. In 4 years, we've never had to pay for a babysitter, we are very close with our families and see parents and nephews weekly. That would change if we moved further away for a shorter commute.

We could move close to SF, save maybe an hour or so commute each way, pay more for a smaller house, and then my kids no longer see their cousins and grandparents every weekend and we no longer get last minute babysitters.

Trust me, I analyzed my situation before and during this commute. It is very different from the outside looking in than when you are in the middle of it. And a few comments on a site like HN is missing a whole lot of context about a multi-faceted issue.

Being by your family when you have small kids is usually a good idea (unless you are one of those people who don't want their family around all the time). Your kids don't need babysitters and can see relatives all the time. Maybe the best solution is to accept a job that you don't like as much/doesn't pay as well until the kids are older.

Or try to find a way to work from home. Then you'd have it made.

Is there no way to work remotely a few days a week?

Exactly my suggestion. My commute is an hour each way but I work from home on Thursdays and will soon work from home on Tuesday as well. You should talk to your employer. They will most likely understand. If they don't, leave and go somewhere that will. It's a good time to be a Ruby developer in SF, so you have some leverage there.

I already do work from home 1-2 days a week, however the other days it is still a lot of time out of the day.

See Ken, I'm not the only one who thinks you're nuts! ;)

If anyone needs an awesome Unix Devops guy that is also a kickass backend Ruby engineer, hire Ken and let him work from home so he can have more time with his kids.

Haha, thanks Karthik

As someone who used to commute about 4 hours a day, a longer commute is almost never a good idea. I don't have kids, and I hated that life. Commuting is wasted time and stressful.

Yeah I hear you.

I just went through the same transition. I moved from Los Angeles to San Francisco without my wife and 2 year old son. After driving down every other weekend for 6 months they're now up here with me.

If your son is anything like mine he:

1. Will not understand why you're not there no matter how much you try to explain beforehand.

2. Will not like it one bit (I think my son was clinically depressed the first week).

3. Will eventually get used to it (It got easier after the first month but still not something I wanted him to get used to).

And if you're anything like me you:

1. Will be tired all the time (Spending 12 hours every other weekend in the car staring at cows takes its toll).

2. Will feel guilty all the time.

In the end I'd say the sacrifice paid off since I'm able to spend much more time with him now than I was able to in L.A. Also, thank God for Skype.

Dude, you saved my day. Thanks for sharing.

Lifes complicated. In some ways I am aware that being in the US for 3 weeks at the time is not optimal, but who said it had to be.

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