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Comment by n4r9 | Hacker News Reader

That thought popped into my head as well, but I wonder if the raw salmon you get in sushi is fresher or prepared differently to buying it in a supermarket?

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Yes, the "raw" fish that you eat without cooking it, is actually first left for a long time in a special freezer that brings it to a very low temperature to kill bacteria and parasites.

To my knowledge, this is not the case for salmon. Whereas wild salmon is not safe to eat raw unless it has been frozen, this should not be necessary for farm-raised salmon of the highest quality.

Yeah, the FDA guidline is that all fish except for tuna must go though the freezing process, unless they are farm raised.

It doesn't have to be a long time if it's a special freezer. You can use a regular deep freezer (non-defrosting) for a longer time. I believe the protocol is something like -30F for 1 day, or -5F for 14 days.

You should probably remove your guess or provide a source. If people are seriously dumb enough to “cook” with a dishwasher, someone is probably going to also take your guess at face value.

Maybe you should provide a source for your guess that my statement is a guess, or remove it. Maybe you could Google first?

What you will find is that there are multiple sources with slightly differing times, even from reputable agencies. What I have stated is actually on the conservative side. Here's one source that is on the faster side.

https://scdhec.gov/food-safety-freezing-parasite-destruction

That's what I call a long time, but yes, it's just a matter of personal perspective.

Also, IIRC they use a brine/vinegar solution to help kill bacteria.

We would just get an entire salmon from the market and make cerviche out of it. There is always a risk with raw food, but it always seems like Americans are very scared of parasites and "natural".

For instance the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in checmicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that. Same with chlorine in the water, it's not necessary.

> For instance the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in chemicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that.

It's fairly common in parts of Europe to store eggs in the fridge too, not because they have to be stored in the fridge (like American eggs do), but because it makes them stay fresh longer.

Grew up in a country town and free range eggs from the farm/house gate keep for a surprisingly long time - at least a month.

Regardless of the source I always crack it in a mug to give it a sniff first because you never know when you'll get a bad one the slipped through the cracks

Shelf-life on a literal shelf is like a week or two. Shelf-life in the fridge is months for euro eggs.

This is not true : eggs in Europe have an expiration date of 28 days (without fridge) and there’s still a fair safety margin.

My lack of organisation gave me several times the opportunity to try eggs stores eggs longer than that - maybe 50days - and never had a problem. The only outdated egg I can remember (they are easy to notice by smell !) was “fresh”, strait from the shop, probably small cracks in the shell…

Here in Norway we're fighting the 28-day rule[1], since our eggs are low on salmonella and the eggs are kept cold from producer to consumer.

Apparently tests have been done here and found our eggs were perfectly fine in a cake after a year in the fridge[2], but the taste of the egg itself changed a bit after 7 months. YMMV...

[1]: https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/03/norway-pushes-for-exe...

[2]: https://www.nrk.no/livsstil/eggene-varer-_nesten_-evig-1.759...

This is based on buying the eggs at the production day though. Usually they sit in the store for a good while.

The BB date is printed on every egg and egg carton. Just subtract 28 days to work out how long it’s been in storage/transit.

Yeah, sure. But the stuff once you get it usually lasts like a week or two, which is my point. If you keep it outside of the fridge that is.

Maybe you’re in a more remote area? The eggs I buy usually have at least 3 weeks before their BB date. Sometimes they’re only 2-3 days old if I’m lucky. I usually try to buy the freshest eggs I can find as they poach better.

Eggs keep for a month in my kitchen, Norway. Not at their best after that time but perfectly safe.

Now try doing the same on the Mediterranean shore.

I've personally kept eggs unrefrigerated in the tropics for more than 30 days. You just have to flip them every couple of days to keep the shell from drying out inside and cracking. These were eggs purchased in Panama before a sailing trip. You can't do this with US eggs though, as others have pointed out, because the shells are cleaned up (from chicken poop) and polished, removing the protective surface in the process.

In the UK and Europe, the “best before” date printed on eggs is 28 days from when it was laid. This assumes room temperature storage. Refrigeration can extend storage life beyond this date.

American eggs are prepared differently before they are taken to the store, they are polished and they remove the protective residue which then requires refrigeration. That’s why Americans do it.

yeah my point is, its weird you guys do that, while rest of the world is fine without doing that.

I don't live in the US so "you guys" is a bit presumptive, but I'm sure there are plenty of things Americans would find odd about other countries as well.

Note that ceviche is a different class of "raw" than e.g. sushi, in that the lime juice does kill _some_ (but not all) parasites. According to https://honest-food.net/ceviche-recipe-safety-parasites-2/, fresh farmed salmon is ok to eat raw, while pacific salmon is pretty risky, on the basis of it being susceptible to seal worm. The article mentions a long freeze (at -4F) being an acceptable way to kill off those parasites before consumption.

To get sick once I don't mind, Im more afraid of those parasites the live with you without noticing. But most Salmon in Europe is transported frozen from Norway before being sold. Even though farmed Salmon comes with it's own problems.

> To get sick once I don't mind, Im more afraid of those parasites the live with you without noticing

Take Ivermectin or other parasite killer once or a couple times per year.

It seems most developed countries disinfect their public water systems, often using chlorine. I believe the WHO have recommendations for it.

Northern Europe often not.

I would guess that's only if it's from a groundwater source. I would also guess that's the exception rather than the rule.

https://waterandhealth.org/newsletter/new/summer-1998/disinf...

> the eggs need to be stored in the fridge because they are dipped in checmicals, the rest of the world is fine without doing that

Also one of the main reasons for chlorine-washing eggs is to reduce the instance of salmonella. But the salmonella is only there because the US will not pass regulation requiring farmers to vaccinate hens, as Europe does.

Ceviche isn't raw. It is delicious though.

Ceviche is not raw. It is “cooked” with acids.

Not really. Farmed salmon and tuna are basically safe, because there are FDA controls around how they have to be frozen before they can be sold, which ensures that parasites die. Other fish are basically down to your risk tolerance.

There's just so much misinformation out there about food safety it's insane. If you understand basic hygiene and aren't immunocompromised, there's really not much need to be so terrified of food.

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-to-prepare-raw-fish-at-home-...

FYI the FDA does not require tuna to be frozen. It is one of the exceptions, just like farmed fish and some mollusks.

I'd be a bit worried about parasites if not knowing the providence of a piece of fish going into sushi.

I make my own sushi at home. I get individually quick frozen filets and freeze them below -5F for about 2 weeks. This way I know they've been through the process.

provenance*

Thanks, I really should have known better! (not sarcastic, I like corrections of errors like this)

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