I personally like nonserviceable batteries because I want my devices to be water resistant, but I'd be more hesitant to throw a battery in the trash than I would be to throw a dead device in the trash.
People have the option of recycling used devices, whether they be battery devices or smartphone devices, at a multitude of retailers.
Only the LEDs I have in table lamps have survived more than five years. All enclosed bulbs die from cheap components and heat damage.
Part of the problem is trying to make LEDs work in our preexisting lighting systems which requires components to make a low voltage DC light work with our existing AC wiring.
https://hackaday.com/2019/02/05/what-happened-to-the-100000-...
https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/the-l-e-d-quanda...
> “My starting point is, get the economics right,” Tim Cooper, a design professor who heads the sustainable-consumption research group at Nottingham Trent University, told me. It’s already possible to buy durable products, he said—Miele washing machines, Vitsoe shelving, Jaguar cars. But, because such products command premium prices, they remain niche goods; by Cooper’s estimate they make up less than five per cent of the market. To truly change a light bulb will require policy changes—whether regulatory, market-based, or voluntary within industries—that support longer product lifetimes
I would agree if lamps designed from scratch for LEDs were any better in terms of longevity, but so far our ~20 year old halogen lamp has survived more than a dozen LEDs.
I'm all for enforcing user serviceability, however it has the potential to be a backwards step for the environment if stern statutes are not put in place and actively policed, with the onus being on the party performing the replacement.
So I'd think you just need to get the incentives right: make it easy and convenient to return and provide a financial reason to do so.
On the other hand, last year I replaced all the smoke alarms in my home. It is essentially impossible to recycle the old alarms. Here's what my town says:
"Only a single household smoke alarm/detector will be accepted with your trash for garbage collection. If you have more than one, they must be disposed using one of these listed options; https://deq.nc.gov/conservation/recycling/general-recycling-... or, check manufacturer for take-back program."
Here's what my county says (in the "unacceptable items" section):
"Smoke detectors contain trace amounts of radioactive material. The recommendation is for consumers to return the smoke detectors to the manufacturers or contact NC Radiation Protection at 919-814-2250."
Here's what my state says:
"The Solid Waste Section recommends that it is safe for a single household fire/smoke detector to be disposed of in a lined municipal solid waste landfill."
No manufacturer has a take-bake program. The county isn't on the same page with the town and the state. So in the trash they went, one per week. Took 3 months to get rid of them all.
[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg&t=1196s&pp=ygUWc21...
- Users generally replace a device less often than replace a part.
- Users usually throw away a part, but not a device. As a matter of fact resales value of Apple devices are higher than for other makers.
- Apple have the mean to recycle trade-in devices and not landfill them. Users may not.
- Devices with replaceable parts may have shorter lifecycle than the ones without, since they are more brittle and complex.
About the only argument for replaceable part is user freedom to fix their devices.
Meanwhile, I know loads of people who have traded in, or simply handed in, their old iPhones in an Apple Store. I can’t imagine anyone casually tossing an old iPhone in the trash the way my feckless bench-neighbour did.
As someone with an arguably garbage-tier phone, sans replaceable battery, I don't think anyone would let me trade it in for a new one or even some sort of a discount, because there isn't a name like Apple behind it, nor the support network.
My previous phone that had replaceable batteries has two in total that I occasionally charge, so it can act as a temporary backup if anything happens to my current phone.
At least once those are used up and no longer hold any sort of a charge, I'll be able to dispose of them in the supermarket battery collection point or something like that. I'm not sure whether I'd want to cram my current phone in there with its memory chips intact.
I guess there are a lot of factors to consider, whether people can afford a certain device or whether they care about disposing of certain types of items responsibly being some of them. Some of this probably varies based on the region of the world as well.
Stores like Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Wegmans, Target, etc all have boxes you can drop bare lithium battery cells into. Usually right at the front of the store tucked off to the side somewhere. They usually have bags provided at the box to put the cells into. I deal with a lot of lipo batteries & don't want to be responsible for a fire, so I usually electrical tape the +/- terminals before dropping off as well.
Some hobby shops do nearly exactly this to get around import restrictions. Whether it’s inside something or not it’s still a lipo battery, imo it’s a silly rule and worth breaking.
Or just get the battery replaced at the Apple Store and keep using your phone an extra year or two. It's even cheaper than buying a new phone!
And you have to say, tossing out the battery is much better than tossing out the entire phone, battery and all
Is that… a bad thing?
* Mandate that batteries be replaceable
* Mandate that repair shops recycle used batteries rather than throw them away
Mandates on consumers don't mean much because they're hard to enforce, but mandates on businesses are much easier. The consumer will come into the shop to get a new battery installed and drop off the old battery for recycling in the process.
Maybe throw in a trade-in rebate for the repair shops or something to seal the deal.
* Mandate that the companies/organizations that claim to recycle batteries actually recycle them, with severe penalties for the ones that bid low and then just send the batteries to a landfill in another country.
My guess is that batteries are more-often recycled than phones/laptops, even just on data-privacy issues alone.
It shouldn't be that hard for a company with so much know how and control over their products.
Is that a net win in your book?
You can recycle batteries.
You trying to suggest that user replaceable batteries are the best option. I'm not sure that this is necessarily true. While it is beneficial that these devices are easier to repair, the are downsides to this. The obvious one is how many people will responsibly recycle their batteries once replaced? A battery left in a drawer is as bad as it not being recycled or being irresponsibly disposed of. The point is, it isn't as open and shut as you are implying.
Okay:
The obvious one is how many people will responsibly recycle their devices once replaced?
"A battery left in a drawer is as bad as it not being recycled or being irresponsibly disposed of."
Okay:
A device left in a drawer is as bad as it not being recycled or being irresponsibly disposed of.
Though previously you just called that Schrodinger's device, so now I fail to see how device in drawer is worse than device and battery in landfill.
> The obvious one is how many people will responsibly recycle their devices once replaced?
I agree, but my current anecdotal experience proves that there is considerably less friction for device recycling. Most, if not all, telco's will take an old mobile off your hands for recycling or refurbishing. Some will even accept trade-ins. Not sure what the situation with batteries is.
> ...so now I fail to see how device in drawer is worse than device and battery in landfill.
As bad not worse. It not being used. That means that it either can be recycled or refurbished and/or reused, except it's doing nothing. Materials that could be in use in some way aren't. In turn, new materials are needed, which adds environmental pressure. Small amounts add up. I can't see how this isn't a bad thing.
Well my anecdotal evidence tells me my broken smart phones end up in my box of old electronics.
I don't service my devices through the telcos. I use prepaid plans and phones. Many people do. That's why department stores sell them. Because there's a customer base that needs them.
I sincerely doubt many 40 dollar off the shelf phones are being recycled.
Many people also likely find it stupid to pay someone to change a battery when we can do it ourselves.
I think a more reasonable compromise here is that we can probably both agree that recycling in general needs massive improvements. i.e. make it incredibly easier for people to recycle or remove the choice from the consumer completely.
P.s. if it's Schrödingers e-waste it's inherently 50-50 on what happens to it so it's not as bad.
And if small amounts add up then arguably devices+batteries in landfill are worse than just battery.
That's on you.
> Many people do. That's why department stores sell them. Because there's a customer base that needs them.
Then make the department store responsible for offering recycling points. Make them responsible.
> I sincerely doubt many 40 dollar off the shelf phones are being recycled.
And that is a problem.
> Many people also likely find it stupid to pay someone to change a battery when we can do it ourselves.
Sure. Given the amount of small businesses that offer phone repair, many don't for a variety of reasons too. My own; keeping the manufacturer responsible for the rare earth materials, and if they fuck up the repair, they are liable. I fuck it up, I'm on my own.
> I think a more reasonable compromise here is that we can probably both agree that recycling in general needs massive improvements. i.e. make it incredibly easier for people to recycle or remove the choice from the consumer completely.
I agree wholeheartedly. To answer your postscript; being in a drawer unused is as bad as being in a landfill because there are materials and components that could be salvaged and reused/recycled. By not recycling them or reusing the device, new materials have to mined and processed. Th only thing you can say is that potentially harmful materials are leaching out, but as discussed, that is only part of the picture. The degree to it being marginally better being in a drawer is negligible.
> And if small amounts add up then arguably devices+batteries in landfill are worse than just battery.
Neither is good. Arguably, losing your hearing is better than losing your sight. The better option is losing neither.
Yeah I agree. More recycling for everything. I know that some hardware stores let you drop off old dead batteries but not typically lithium based iirc. Some groceries stores also have kiosks that pay for old phones, easily could be adapted for batteries as well.
Found this here today:
https://ai.googleblog.com/2023/04/robotic-deep-rl-at-scale-s...
I think personally letting people chuck everything into one bin and sort it at the collection site is a pathway to eliminate a lot of waste and eliminates arguing over which is often more recycled, a phone or a battery.