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Comment by brk | Hacker News Reader

We had that happen too with things that for whatever reason Amazon decides to ship via USPS.

USPS will accept the package, and bill the sender for delivery to the end point, but then just decide "nah, you come get it" once it gets to their local facility.

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Yep, it's basically fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government. Not that that excuses Amazon. If anyone should know which carriers to use to reliably ship packages it should be them.

I called my congresswoman, Jackie Speier, about this and she started an investigation of my local post office distribution center. I ended up getting interviewed by some postal service investigator, several supervisors were fired (for unrelated things that came out during the investigation), and I got all my packages.

That's great but it's unfortunate that all of that effort seems only to have improved things at one post office. Given the number of upvotes my comment has gotten this must be a fairly widespread problem.

it's basically fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government

Do you think that might be a little hyperbolic when talking about picking something up from the local post office?

For me as a disabled person it's the difference between being able to get my package or not and then maybe getting refunded or not. For the majority of people it may be more of an inconvenience but they are still losing time and effort on something that they actually paid to have done.

I'm no lawyer but I think that when you advertise that you are going to do something and then try to foist that responsibility off on the consumer incurring costs for them and savings for you are committing fraud as it is defined by law.

You paid for delivery to your door.

You have no contract with USPS, you have one with the seller. If the seller choses to use USPS because it's cheaper that's on them.

You can get your money back.

That said, it shouldn't happen in the first place.

For me as a disabled person it's the difference between being able to get my package or not and then maybe getting refunded or not.

This is an explanation of it being inconvenient to you, but not an explanation of "fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government".

I'm no lawyer but I think that when you advertise that you are going to do something

Is there a guarantee in writing that they will deliver it to your door?

The USPS appears to be misrepresenting its ability to deliver large and/or heavy packages. It does so in writing on its various websites where the weights and sizes of packages it accepts are published. The fact that others have experienced this suggests that it is not a one-off issue but that there is likely an element of knowledge and intentionality on the part of the USPS administration. What then is missing from the definition of fraud ?

As for

> Is there a guarantee in writing that they will deliver it to your door?

I'm not sure, but I believe that is the general understanding most people have of the nature of the service being offered. If the USPS and/or Amazon were clear that by deliver they mean send a package to somewhere within a few miles of where you live then consumers would be able to take that into account when deciding which vendors to frequent (and many who are able would probably opt for their local Home Depot over Amazon). Moreover it would open the marketplace for competitors to offer higher quality delivery services on fair and clear terms.

but I believe that is the general understanding most people have of the nature of the service being offered

Unfortunately I think after the first time it doesn't make it to your door, everyone's general understanding calibrates to reality.

Moreover it would open the marketplace for competitors to offer higher quality delivery services on fair and clear terms.

Like fedex, ups and dhl ?

Well a year ago I ordered the exact same item and it was delivered by UPS directly to my door with no issues whatsoever. One of the big issues is unpredictability. Who want's to buy online if actually getting your purchase delivered competently is a complete crap shoot ?

> Like fedex, ups and dhl ?

Yes, but how many online retailers allow the buyer to choose from multiple delivery options ? Amazon certainly doesn't (except maybe for a very few large and very expensive items).

At an individual level, yes. As a likely discussion that happened in a board room at some point in time, no not hyperbole.

If they were paid to do a job and didn't do the job, how is that not fraud?

This is so similar to what happens in Brazil with online retailers when they decide to ship something through the Brazilian Postal Company (Correios).

For me it's a gamble to order anything online because I live in a suburb that doesn't get postal service, and the parcel gets redirected to a neighbouring town instead of my own city's office. All private shipping companies deliver to my door, though.

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