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Comment by smsm42 | Hacker News Reader

Whatever you want to tell yourself to make yourself happy. I have no horse in this race anymore, if you want to try to suppress violent crime by "taxing the rich" and firing the policeman and distributing money among PhD-led NGOs which would experiment with newest theories on your city - be my guest. The results will speak for itself, and if you like what you see in SF (or similar major cities) now - well, enjoy it, while I enjoy what I think to be much better quality of life and no chance of getting randomly stabbed while walking around my home. I have pretty much zero motivation in convincing you - I showed you where I got my facts, all this is readily available, and with that I am done.

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I've been reading this entire thread and I'd like to point out that basically all sub threads have gone the way this conversation has.

In short, someone will attack a progressive spectre, such as BLM, police abolitionism, rehabilitative justice, or the fact that economic inequality is strongly correlated with crime, they will be asked to show data supporting their position or shown data that directly contradicts it, and the op will then respond in anger with a lot more strawmans of progressive positions.

Given that you don't have the data to support your position, and others do have data to support the position you clearly and vehemently oppose, I'm really curious why you still hold that position? Like, what are you feeling right now?

Let's conspire as a country to drive all the homeless, addicts, and mentally ill to a few concentrated urban areas. Keep them well away from our white wealthy enclaves (NIMBY!). Now let's preen about how those urban areas are suddenly crime-ridden hellholes, and we told you all along it was the fault of your liberal policies.

> they will be asked to show data supporting their position

I did.

> shown data that directly contradicts it

It wasn't.

> will then respond in anger with a lot more strawmans of progressive positions.

That didn't happen. Defunding the police is exactly the position of the prog-woke crowd, and until the disastrous results started showing up, they didn't hide it - they campaigned on it. Once the inevitable happened, they started screaming "we didn't mean that" and pretending it's all strawmen. Yes you did. You meant exactly that, and you got what you wanted, and now people who trusted you are suffering the consequences. Some - the lethal ones.

> Given that you don't have the data to support your position

Except I do.

> others do have data to support the position you clearly and vehemently oppose

Except they don't.

> I'm really curious why you still hold that position?

Because I not only dislike myself being stabbed, but also others being stabbed? And when these policies are followed, people get stabbed. Also shot, mugged, robbed, carjacked, and so on. If you think ideology is worth it - enjoy it. I do not.

> what are you feeling right now?

I am feeling sad that more people have to suffer in service of idiotic ideology that clearly does not work, and I am feeling glad I am no longer one of these people.

In the case of SFPD, they were not abolished or defunded, in fact their budget increased.

Results have been disastrous in the usa because economic inequality has been skyrocketing. This is what the "prog woke" crowd has been warning about, and, as the data shows, very little if any of the "prog woke" policies have been enacted, even in "prog woke" hub San Francisco.

It's getting worse because the predictable reactionary cycle and ratcheting continues. A region virtue signals progressive positions, maybe even does a half measure (like eliminating cash bail, a blatantly classist policy), then ratchets back into reactionary land by cherry picking events, even if overall data shows improvements as expected. Or, like in the case of SF, contrarian forces will mean you can have a situation like "socialist DA elected," then the cops will simply stop doing their jobs, so whether the new da tries progressive policy or not is moot - enforcement will plummet.

Reactionary systems are remarkably powerful in the USA and that's why things will probably keep getting worse there.

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