Comment by grecy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by grecy | Hacker News Reader

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I'm a foreigner that has crossed into the USA 25+ times, about half of those at land borders from Canada (where I live, but I'm not Canadian)

>the border guard starts in on me hard. I mean he had it out for me. I still have no idea why I rubbed him the wrong way, but he sure didn't like me.

This happens to me 75% of the time I try to enter the USA.

The best one was when I had my usa-plated motorbike in Canada, and came back into the USA with it. The border guard yelled at me, literally yelled at me for 2 hours about how much trouble I was in. "You gunna get it, boy", etc. Whenever I politely asked what law I had broken, I was told to "shut the hell up, smartass". (I broke no law, and was eventually allowed on my way)

Another time in front of about 40 people the border guard booms "Can you read, Boy?". To which I replied "yes, sir", as he threw my passport across the room, hitting me on the chest and falling on the floor.

A while back I was flying out from LA to Melbourne, and upon looking at my international plane ticket, the border guard said "where's Melbourne?". I was then forced to sit in a dark room, by myself for 4 hours, until another guard came along and said "looks fine to me, on your way"

>he was trying to get me to talk and contradict myself - which I have to admit is pretty fucked up.

This is the case every time I cross the border.

For the record, I'm white.

Ouch, I'm not sure what that says that I immediately wondered if you were a minority.

Oh, and I had a similar experience re: Melbourne. I'm a US citizen living in Australia, and was landing in San Fran for a 3 week visit about 8 years ago. As required by law, I travel on my US passport in and out of the US, so no problem right? But no, I start getting the third degree about what I do with myself - "I'm a student at the University of Melbourne" - "What is that? A college? What's Melbourne?" - err, where I just came from, and its best known University.

It says you are familiar with the historical racist usage of "boy"?

(For non-Americans: a common racial slur in the southern US during the Jim Crow era was to call an adult black man "boy".)

There was a curious culture clash in the '60s when Muhammad Ali was in Australia doing a meet'n'greet and a local TV personality was doing a light-hearted interview with him, and threw in the phrase 'I like the boy', referring to Ali.

The phrase was a slogan for a product that the local celebrity had been involved with, and didn't have the connotations here that it did in Ali's home country... the interview went sour fast.

"I like the boy" really just refers to a young male the way its said here, in Australia anyway. However, having watched enough American films, people are exposed to the "something something, boy." usage and aware of its connotations. These days you might say "guy" instead of "boy" but for no particular reason except that languages change.

In older English films, you often hear "my boy", which also doesn't have the same connotations.

Across cultural boundaries, the same words can mean different things.

Nonetheless, I'd be offended if someone referred to me as "boy" when directly addressing me because of the connotations that come from a culture separate to my own.

I imagine being referred to as 'boy' while your passport is airborne is offensive everywhere :)

here's the video (can't confirm audio on this machine) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWKyDGGptA4

corrections to my story:

- late '70s

- misunderstanding was acknowledged and forgiven

I live in Holland (US Citizen) and get a long series of questions about 50% of the time when crossing the US border.

"Do you live in Holland? What do you do there? What are you doing on your visit back home?"

I usually (happily, respectfully) humor them for a few questions, and then switch to "am I free to go?" (with a smile).

Only once has this resulted in a small temper-tantrum by the agent (after which he just let me go). They cannot deny you entry, they can only delay it for a while and conduct extra searches.

I'm always worried in these situations that not using the word "sir" would impact on my experience and their reaction. It seems to be a common thing to say in the US, but I can't remember ever using it outside of a joke in my life.

OTOH, I find the habit that Americans have of calling everyone "guys", particularly from waiters, janitors, etc, annoying and vulgar, but apparently that's the habit on the other side of the pond (or am I that old?).

How would you call a person you don't know? Particularly someone with authority, like a cop, border guard, etc? Just curious; so far I still consider "mister", "man", "ol'guy" and "chap" to be deliberately insulting :)

I'm an American, I've lived several major cities (so I'm not blinded by a specific localized culture), and calling people "guy" as a generic pronoun doesn't strike me as a universal Americanism. Where it is used, it's just as a greeting:

"Hey, guy..." or "Hey, dude..." or "Hey, man...". I prefer just "Hey" or "Hi" to get someone's attention. "Mister" and "ol(d|') guy" seem anacronistic to me. (I was born after Vietnam if that helps.) "Mate", "chap", etc. are the same idea, but originate in British (or colonial British) culture.

Those attention-getting pronouns are frowned upon in formal or "civilized" (upper-class or upper-middle-class) communication, I suppose because it's considered informal or rude to try to grab someone's attention that way. However, in everyday vulgar (as in not-formal) speech, I don't consider any of them to be insulting. There are other culture-specific race-specific and gender-specific pronouns which can be very insulting, to the point of getting you killed when used in the wrong situation, but can also be okay depending on who you are and who you're talking to.

When talking to cops, border guards, or any agent of the executive branch who has the power to ruin your day, I would always use "sir" or "ma'am".

What you mean "calling everyone guys"?

e.g. "Hey, guy! Don't step on the wet floor"?

I don't think, generally speaking, that honorifics are required, even with individuals working in an official capacity (I would never say "sir" to a cop or a ICE agent, for example). That might just be a west coast habit, though. Back east, things might be different.

You know, something like "Hey guys, what would you like?" and "Hi guys, How're ya doin'?". When I enter a restaurant, I'm not looking forward creating bonds with waiters. It always feel quite awkward to me. But hey, I was taught "English" not "American English", and corn isn't maize, you may colour the centre, and so on :)

BTW how would you talk to the said cop? Officer?

Well, I guess that all depends on your upbringing.

I'm from Southern Europe and I'd say it's quite normal for waiters to greet customers like that (except on fancy, expensive places of course). You don't have to "create bonds" with them, it's just a matter of being friendly.

Also, don't forget that waiters in the U.S. live off their tips, so I guess that can be a reason as to why they try to be as friendly as possible.

(I should stress that this might be different for other Americans -- it's a big place with lots of regions)

When interacting with authority figures I am generally polite without deference.

I find that people generally use honorifics when they're being quite rude and would like to soften the impact (e.g. the perennial "Good day, sir"), or while insipidly attempting to endear oneself to another (e.g. perceiving someone as wealthy or powerful). I don't know if it's my own egalitarian nature, or cultural, but I find both more rude than the omission of "sir" or "madam".

"Hi guys" to a group of mixed gender is just considered friendly but casual in Australia. The cleaners of my office stop to chat or generally work around us if we're working late. They can call me anything friendly, to be honest. "Mate" is obviously common amongst some sets.

I wouldn't call a cop anything. Would just say "hi".

I am a us citizen, and I'm sure this sounds (is?) naive, but in the 75% of times when you catch flak for no reason are you asking for the officer's badge number or some other form of identification which you could later use to report their inappropriate behavior (yelling and calling you "boy" are inappropriate)? If not, I would recommend it in the future. Border guards shouldn't be needlessly abrasive, and the situation will only improve if there are consequences for their actions.

> " the situation will only improve if there are consequences for their actions"

You're under the impression that complaints filed with DHS will lead to consequences. I'm not quite so certain this is the case.

TSA is annoying, but for the most part just see like miserable people grudgingly following policy. CBP on the other hand, consistently seems like it attracts only the most power-trippy of individuals known to this country.

I can’t imagine that being a good idea. I’m not an US citizen and I wouldn’t ever want to speak up against any US border guard in any way. That doesn’t seem like a wise idea to me. They don’t have to leave me in.

I don’t have any rights, right?

> I don’t have any rights, right?

Exactly. By very definition, when I enter the USA under the visa waiver program, I have to sign the back of the form, which essentially says "You have no rights".

(That's actually what the guard was talking about when he asked if I could read)

Even when I've applied for a working visa, been interviewed and approved, paid the fees, have an entire page visa in my passport and caught a 15 hour $1200 flight, the border guard can deny me entry and force me to go home simply because (s)he doesn't like the cut of my hair. (S)he doesn't need any more reason than that.

I will never, ever talk back or be in any way uncooperative to a US border guard, or any law enforcement during time in the USA, including asking for a badge number. I don't want to deal with the st storm that will likely bring down on me.

hmm, maybe you're giving off unconscious vibes that create those situations because they know they can get away with it.

I've been a visa requiring foreigner for about a third of my life, and I have found that apart from being nice, humble and unassuming the best is to dress conservatively, be clean and just basically look like you are too conservative to break any rules. Also make sure you carry the right papers, know all the questions and have answers to them, and have enough sleep beforehand.

That's a pretty lame excuse for having someone repeatedly treated like shit.

I think you are right, even though you got downvoted.

I'm not white. In fact I look like I could be the younger, nerdier brother of Mohamed Atta. I got off my green card and became a US citizen only in 2009 (After I was sure McCain wouldn't become President, and after I was certain they couldn't draft me :-)

My papers have always been in order, and I've never had a problem with any customs or border guards.

At the airport, that's effectively correct. At a road crossing, you can always come back and try again later.

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