> A friend who was planning to meet Lee in Miami this weekend told The Standard that Lee had been in San Francisco on business, had stayed an extra day and was killed on that day.
I am genuinely curious to know how SF residents feel about this.
I am genuinely curious to know how SF residents feel about this.
Last time I was in SF, people were shocked that I felt less comfortable than I do in Detroit. Detroit doesn't tolerate half the shit SF does - no encampments, no wandering screamers, etc. Yes, violent and organized crime is much higher - but when you're QOL is lower than the symbol of urban decline........
Huh?
The homeless squat in abandoned houses and when it’s warm they absolutely do have tents.
Wandering screamers? Really, they don’t because that wasn’t my experience either.
Maybe Detroit is just much smaller, has different weather and has fewer homeless?
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/mill-valley-man-kille...
Now since large number of families moved out from SF, and there are more no big local gangs (since there are no families) you have about 40% more random homicides. And these random ones are the worse and the most scary ones.
They're also talking about people who engage in business that is not state sanctioned and therefore have to settle disputes with their own violence instead of getting a court to threaten state violence on their behalf. One part time drug dealer rounding up a couple buddies and putting a bullet in a guy who ripped him off will show up as and makes up a huge chunk of what's considered "gang violence" in these stats.
When comparing cities it's useful to differentiate between random crime and crime where the parties to know each other.
And also if we're willing to accept this pretty high bar...
For comparison the UK, not exactly the safest country in Europe, had 12x the homicides for 80x the population, which puts SF at 6 times more homicides per population.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/crime-homicides-...
https://sfist.com/2023/01/03/sf-sees-exact-same-number-of-ho...
Because that’s the difference between 2019s all time low year at this point… and so far in 2023.
Oh and ‘21 & ‘22 by now? Difference of 2.
Absolute numbers don’t sound as scary as percentages tho do they? Might ruin your narrative.
2019 = 41
2020 = 48
2021 = 56
2022 = 56
If you can't discuss the facts in a civil manner I am not going to discuss the issue with you any further.
SF average homicide rate: 7.1/100k [1]
Rome average homicide rate: 0.5/100k [2]
[1] https://abc7news.com/feature/san-francisco-bay-area-safety-t...
[2] (in Italian) https://www.agi.it/fact-checking/omicidio_sacchi_sicurezza_r...
Based on the subreddit, which is usually a trash fire, it's what you'd expect I guess? Everyone thinks murder is bad, so we start at that baseline, and from there it's a couple classes of people arguing with eachother: those that are happy to consider san francisco "a shithole" or whatever hot reactionary word of the day the rest of the country is using to label SF as enemy #1 of traditional american values and are essentially exuberant to have a new single point of data to sling around, and those that are overcorrecting against this and diminishing the real problems in SF in an attempt to whitewash while to be fair making things seem more true to reality, that is to say, portray SF as, statistically speaking, relatively safe and boring for a US metropolitan area.
As a former SF resident I think it's really sad that someone got murdered and I'm really angry about it. I'm mad at whoever did it, what a scumbag. I'm hopeful that there will be justice. I'm also afraid that this might give ammunition to reactionaries that want to overfund or overarm the SFPD, and that this will lend further political strength to politicians like bloodthirsty DAs that get their rocks off to throwing young POC in prison for minor drug offenses.
Cynically, part of me knows that finally some of the issues SF has been facing and the various leaders have been ignoring or handling poorly will probably be handled properly now that a rich person has been murdered. Well, no, cynical me again, probably this just means the cops will be cut loose a bit more and ineffective, punitive policies will be enacted / enforced / tightened.
In any case, even the most pro-incarceration DA electable in San Francisco would be a reform candidate in almost every jurisdiction of the country.
Funny, I have never seen the “first concern” being how it will affect criminals.
What I have seen, instead, is a weird fetish by most Americans, but most importantly, politicians, to increase punishment for criminals and expand police powers and protections, despite tons of evidence this doesn’t work and the US already having more punishment and more police powers than peer countries with far lower crime.
Some people respond by suggesting that we should try changes that actually help reduce crime and homicides as opposed to those that just help satisfy a knee jerk animalistic desire for punishment.
Punishment works better than whatever we are doing now.
There is a huge difference between being a keyboard warrior and being terrified to walk outside at night.
I don't want to live in a world where walking down the street of a neighborhood one looks too low class for invites a police response because of someone else's poor risk assessment.
My first concern is how it will affect people the police historically over-target. That means black people and LGBT people. I'm re-reading my comment and I think I alluded to that, so I'm a little concerned that you said "how it will affect criminals".
> the police and the DA office have essentially legalized many forms of crime by refusing to prosecute people
This is a broad oversimplification of the situation in SF. I keep hearing this myth from people that don't live in SF that the police have been, like, abolished or something, but in reality no politician comes anywhere close to touching police abolitionist rhetoric.
In reality the cops absolutely hated the last DA and it seems they started sucking at their jobs on purpose as a result. The new DA they seem to like a lot more. Regardless, blame always seems to deflect off the cops and onto the nearest politician when it comes to basically anything in SF.
Replies to you are discussing how "crime is legal" in SF and I really have no idea what this could mean. It sounds like fox news gobblygook to me.
What's worse, some people feeling unsafe around police, or everyone feeling unsafe around everyone?
It's not just a false dichotomy, it's illogical. If a given set of people doesn't feel safe around the police, they don't feel safe in society. They are us, unless you're willing to dehumanize them, so therefore a world where we don't feel safe around the police is actually your second case, where we don't feel safe at all.
I click through this thread desperate for a conservative position that isn't teetering on a stack of rhetorical fallacies or cognitive biases. Are you able to provide one?