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Comment by dopamean | Hacker News Reader

I'm not a car person and not super informed about what's going on in the EV world so maybe I'm missing something obvious asking this question but... aren't most of the legacy car companies making EVs very clearly dunking on Tesla? I've been in a few recently including an Ioniq 5, Mercedes EQS, some Lexus EV. They were all really, really nice in different ways. The Mercedes was incredibly quiet (especially compared to friends' Teslas). All had great interiors and were stylish in their own ways (your taste may be different). So what gives with Tesla? Is it the supercharger network? Price?

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Tesla generally wins at the combination of Range, Charging, Price, and Availability.

The Model 3 starts in the low $40k range. Some of the luxury options you mention are at much higher price points. The vast majority of Tesla’s sales are vehicles below $60k.

Tesla has its charging network which is consistent and reliable compared to some competing networks. The Kia/Hyundai cars are the only ones that really match or beat Tesla’s charging speeds.

The combination of range, charging speed, and charger availability integrated with a smart onboard navigation system that knows the status of chargers and your estimated consumption (including speed, traffic, elevation, weather, etc.) makes for an experience that makes longer trips “just work” more often than some other vehicles.

Tesla also is on track to ship around 2m cars globally this year. Most of the competition are available in much smaller quantities, longer wait lists, and often have dealer markups due to the supply/demand disparity.

So if you ignore everything that matters in a car purchasing decision, Ioniq 6 is a slam dunk. Haha.

There are definitely other factors that can matter in a car decision.

Like how close the nearest dealer or service center is to you. Or whether you live in the US, where Tesla's Supercharger network dominates, or in Europe where there is much greater coverage and competition among chargers.

Tax credits differ between states and countries as well.

And of course there are lots of reasons to like a car even if it doesn't win on specs. Style, interior features, cabin noise, physical controls versus touch controls, etc. can all matter a lot in a vehicle you are spending $50k on and drive every day.

I own a Model Y so there may be some bias but this is my take.

Tesla hits the sweet spot of price, technology, good design and sales model. Speaking for myself only, I would consider very few other EV manufacturers, Hyundai is definitely peaking interest but I think for me Tesla is still edging ahead.

The dealer experience is miserable. I don't want to haggle on price, I don't want to allow a credit check just to test drive a vehicle, looking at your Genesis. There is something pleasant about going on line and having a set price and ordering.

I truly enjoy Tesla's software and car design. There are constant improvements, sometimes bad changes but overall the experience keeps getting better. Sure its a touch screen, you have to accept having a touch screen to enjoy it but compared to all other manufacturers they have a UI that makes sense for me. To me it feels like most of the decisions are practical, I don't consider my car a luxury car but more a simple EV.

Its not the cheapest EV but its also not the most expensive.

Edit: The other thing I would add is that while there are still holes, their service network beats all others. If you buy this Ioniq 6 you are still having to deal with a service network that barely touches any electric vehicles. Along with that I am sure there are many kinks Hyundai and others are trying to work out. There goal has to been to launch EV vehicles as quickly as possible to catch-up to Tesla.

I almost bought a Model Y.

Tesla has so many kinks.....

1. Wipers are using cameras and not working properly. Legacy automakers have solved this 20 years ago.

2. There are bad design decision all around and poor build quality. Examples: door seals are glued on, everyone else uses clips. Poor panel fitment.

3. Tesla makes insane cost cutting decision, removal of USS sensors, to be replaced by INFERIOR tesla vision.

4. Tesla locks you in. Dealers are independent, there is an upside to this. The dealer works for you, not for manufacturer. Tesla service center has an incentive of trying to cut cost.

5. No 3rd party parts.

6. No proper blind-spot sensors.

7. The door handles are worse than regular door handles.

8. Noise inside cabin is high, very poorly insulated.

9. The suspension in a 2022 Y I drove was BRUTAL, like a modified race car brutal. It is also a common complaint.

10. Lack of cross traffic alert and 360 camera.

11. Tow hitch requires a software unlock....like wtf.

12. FSD is a $15k scam that should not be allowed on public streets.

> The dealer works for you, not for manufacturer. Tesla service center has an incentive of trying to cut cost.

How is this so? The dealer works for the dealership and the same incentives to gouge you apply.

When a dealer performs warranty work they are charging the manufacturer. Performing the job is in their interest as that generates income for them.

Tesla service center performing warranty work is nothing but an expense for Tesla. The tesla service center not doing the work is better for the center.

100%, tons of kinks but at least for me it was still the best EV on the market for what I wanted. If I did not need the range/size I think I would have gone with a newer model Leaf.

The thing they're all missing is volume. I bought my Tesla in December, because my old car was dying and I was ready to get an EV. I drove an hour and a half away to test drive a Bolt, a VW dealership near me had a 2021 id.4 to test drive, and that was all I could find (other than the Tesla, which was a snap to test drive both a 3 and a Y). I had wanted an Ioniq 5 but all the dealerships around me were marking them up at least $5k over MSRP, and I couldn't find one to test drive.

I think the competitors are getting pretty good, but Tesla still sells an order of magnitude more than them in the US, and so it will be a couple years of ramping before they're really "dunking" on Tesla. At least, around here in the midwest where I live. You can probably comparison shop a lot more easily in SF or something.

I test drove basically every other EV before getting my Model Y.

They were all a mess in one way or another. Awful software, clunky driving experience, terrible charging experience, etc.

A friend of a friend had their Ioniq 5 die within a month and it took 6 months to get it fixed because they are so low on parts and engineers.

I guess what I'm getting at is that while each of them had some really strong attributes, they all had some deal breaker for me. The Tesla isn't necessarily best at everything, but for the parts that matter to me there was nothing bad.

I think other car makers will be competitive with Tesla in another year or maybe two. But right now the package is refined in Tesla enough.

>it took 6 months to get it fixed because they are so low on parts and engineers.

Seems par for the course to be honest. Both people I know who got rear ended in their Teslas had to wait 5+ months for repairs

> Is it the supercharger network?

That is one important aspect, too.

But if we're being honest, there are other things too. If you want an EV, Tesla is a pretty obvious choice, they sell by far the most. If you care about image, they're also king of that hill (we can argue how aspirational a Model 3 really ought to be, objectively, but the market sees it that way). And if you hate the traditional dealership experience, Tesla will again be appealing.

Tesla giving up the supercharger exclusivity is an interesting choice. I'll be interested to see how that works out for them.

From a business standpoint, Tesla sells an order of magnitude more EVs than the closest competitor and makes a ton of profit on each one, whereas most other automakers sell their EVs at a loss.

If you happen to be an engineer or just love tech, I highly recommend watching some EV teardowns (and cost analysis) on the MunroLive youtube channel. The differences are more than skin deep, and give a better picture of how Tesla manages to build so many vehicles at such high margins.

> aren't most of the legacy car companies making EVs very clearly dunking on Tesla?

It's called competition. Tesla needs to get used to it.

I think Tesla not having dealerships is a pretty big advantage. But agreed their cars are no longer very special, although they have gotten cheaper and are eligible for the tax credits where some others aren't.

I think they just have to mention Tesla otherwise nobody will care.

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