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Comment by Izmaki | Hacker News Reader

I wonder how many cents this will save them per car. When I can buy a Software Defined Radio module for less than a bottle of wine and some sushi that lets me listen to both AM and FM (everything below 1 GHz basically), and this module takes up less space than my smartphone, it can't be because AM radio is particularly hard to install or expensive to produce.

Seems pointless to remove, but at the same time I bet the majority of car owners these days don't really use AM that often, if they even know what it is, that is.

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AM is hard to implement in EVs due to shielding requirements. Not just about being cheap, about deprecating the obsolete.

From the AM broadcasting Wikipedia page:

“Among persons aged 12-24, AM accounts for only 4% of listening, while FM accounts for 96%. Among persons aged 25-34, AM accounts for only 9% of listening, while FM accounts for 91%. The median age of listeners to the AM band is 57 years old, a full generation older than the median age of FM listeners."

The AM/FM radios are jellybean standardized components that have existed for decades.

Winter in the mountains where FM doesn't work, AM is essential.

"shielding" kind of glosses over that the components in EVs tend to emit more electromagnetic interference (EMI).

This article seems to be a nice overview of the issue:

https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentar...

I guess implementing a receiver that is isolated from the interference can cost more than a few cents though (because it's the whole signal path).

AM HD is digital and much less impacted.

Many farming communities only have AM radio for the migrant workers. So Tesla/Ford might actually be cutting off low income, non english speaking farming immigrants from access to local radio in their own language and community.

But they they probably are not driving EVs like tesla, still not cool thou.

Ford cutting it out of their f150 work trucks seems to be rather bad for many communities.

This is the most convoluted way of disparaging Tesla I’ve ever seen. Congratulations

GMRS radios also barely with within an EV vehicle surprisingly. Was only a few car lengths behind friend on a road trip, couldn't talk to them over GMRS radio, but I could pick up truck and boat traffic from miles away! We had to go back to using our phones to coordinate pitstops!

No one really knows the listenership stats for radio, the method used to come up with numbers is appalling.

True. It could be vastly lower than this, right?

Those usage numbers are actually higher than I expected, but maybe that is because they are framed in relation to FM and usage of FM is way down in those demos too.

EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.

New combustion vehicle sales are being phased out in many jurisdictions by 2030-2035. Might as well drop this now for supply chain and shared platform efficiencies considering how fast use is trailing off.

Those deadlines aren't going to be realized. They're just a classist attempt at virtue signaling, completely detached from reality.

They force supply chains to reconfigure regardless of public opinion. If legacy auto continues to build combustion vehicles they can’t sell, it’s a death sentence. They already have a debt load exceeding safety while trying to move to EV production at scale.

But sure, ignore nation state regulations as a multinational at your own peril. Not my debt to service in a rising interest rate environment.

https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-i...

You can't push demand down people's throats even if they are receptive to EVs. Where are renters going to plug in their state mandated vehicles? Homeowners who don't have a secure place to plug in? People who can't afford electrical upgrades? Sucks to be them, go ride a bus?

There is still a used car market ? Alternative to not buying a new cheap gas powered vehicle is not public transit

Used car prices are already skyrocketing. And with all the manufacturers having already stopped making their cheaper cars, it's only going to get worse. Add in forced EV adoption, and demand for used cars will go up even higher.

There is a gas-user density threshold below which stations stop being viable. It will be interesting seeing the map of gas-station deserts develop and expand over the coming decades.

As a daily driver of hydrogen fuel cell vehicle I experience that today, if I can manage with just 45 pumps in all of California some constantly broken down, and still do 15,000 miles/year it should be fine even if many pumps disappear.

Gas stations may become primarily supercharger points, and pump maybe in one corner as a legacy, i doubt it would completely disappear as long as old vehicles still ply the roads in numbers.

From public transit to government subsidy for people economically unable to make the change there are many policies we can effect to solve this problem. Indirect subsidy of Gas[1] should not be one of them

[1] Without a carbon tax on emissions we are all already effectively subsidizing the costs of climate related economic impact of floods, droughts, forest fires so on.

The Japanese and Germans are resisting the ICE phase out in their own ways. The Germans aren't ready to walk away from their vaunted automotive history so they forced efuels to be acceptable for 2035. But all those efuel vehicles will run hydrocarbon petrol just fine. Toyota and Honda are both dragging their feet on ICE retirement. Toyota has said they have no plans to give up ICE production, even after the recent CEO change. Honda is quieter but they both sell into markets that aren't going to stop wanting ICEs: they can't afford BEVs.

I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.

This sounds regressive and pointless. FM/AM vs. FM radio has to be pennies. In some mountainous areas, only AM radio works.

It should be required by regulation, to be frank. Many places still have emergency broadcasts on AM radio.

If we're going to regulation route, we could also require those emergency broadcasts to move to FM.

The cost of issuing new regulations by the government is far lower than the cost to retrofit FM hardware to all stations.

FM frequencies do not propogate in nearly the same way as MW do.

especially considering a backup camera and an accompanying display became a requirement in the states, AM radio would be nothing

pointless? the ford will come with a 30 day subscription to xm..

My Honda did… I was pre signed up for my convenience. and apparently they gave XM my address too because I started getting regular mail when the trial ran out..

I wonder if it's less cost and more about a support angle.

If they get a mere handful of customers tying up service people on "the AM radio was crystal clear on my 1992 Camry with manual-everything, it must be my new $60k electric car being busted!" it's probably more costly than telling the software developers to deselect a build flag.

I thought about that too. An external or internal socketed module would turn an AM UPGRADE into at least $100 in labor costs unless it's done by the RADIO OEM. Just put AM in the darn radio guys!

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