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Comment by light_hue_1 | Hacker News Reader

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Obviously some folks wanted the judge there to speak. Why are you so scared of differing opinions? Why must the only option be to silence those that disagree with you?

Let me preface by saying I'm completely pro choice. But you say "policies... literally murdering mothers by denying them critical healthcare." But wouldn't reciprocal policies allow for the murdering of unborn babies? Once again, I'm pro choice. But I can at least understand and consider the argument from the other side.

This polarized political environment where we demonize the other and can't bear the thought of civil discourse is played out. These childish ways are not welcome in America.

No one is asking you to be silent. They are asking you to not silence others.

Not sure why I'm even bothering to reply to you, but in the event there is some aspect of good faith open mindedness on your part, 'largely white male sexists and racists' (to the extent that this is the class of people being discussed here, which you assume but isn't at all obvious) have just as much a right to give speeches and to have their views discussed and criticised as Muslims or blacks or anybody else - that is entirely the point of the First Amendment and indeed it is the idea of free speech in general. Nobody cares that you find it disgusting, and that you find it disgusting has no bearing on Constitutional Law.

My advice to you would be: If you have problems with what is being said, try criticising it in terms of how you think it's wrong, not on the ad hominem basis of who said it.

I am sympathetic to you opinion, but think you might benefit from a more nuanced ways of communicating free speech.

Check this out : https://popehat.substack.com/p/clarifying-some-common-first-...

I'll have a look at your link (I've already skimmed it but I will have a closer look) but what in particular do you have issues with?

To be frank, my main issue is that the First Amendment regulates the governmental control of free speech, and should not be confused with the cultural value of tolerating disagreeable ideas.

I very much agree with the ideal of Defending the right of someone to speak a disagreeable idea, but that is not enshrined in the First Amendment.

Obnoxious students shouting down I guess speaker is not a First Amendment violation. A First Amendment violation would be if the state or FBI walked into the room and silenced them.

The link I provided talks about three different categories of free speech, and how they relate to law and cultural values.

I agree with you, except your points about universities. Colleges are funded by government funds - both State and Federal, and hence to that extent SHOULD be held to the same standards of free speech as government agencies. Now if Stanford doesn't receive any public monies, then you'd be correct (in that case it's just a private institution and wouldn't be bound by normal First Amendment issues).

I confess though that I'm trained in Australian law, not US law, and so I'll look into this more.

Stanford is not federally or state funded. It is a independent institution and private school. Students may receive governmental subsidies for tuition, but that is common for private institutions which meet minimum requirements.

The educators are not government employees, any more than a private grocery which accepts food vouchers is a governmental entity.

> It is a independent institution and private school

Well then it would be useful for you to know that private schools, in California, are required by law to respect certain free speech principles.

This was all in the article, if you go read it.

California may have laws governing speech at private universities, but California law is not the same thing as the First Amendment

So then yes, even though "It is a independent institution and private school" it still is required to respect certain student free speech rights, because it is in California?

> California may have laws governing speech

So yes, you agree with me that they have to respect student free speech rights, as according to California law.

It is atrocious and disgraceful but it is not “literally murder.”

If that is “literally murder” then we can throw the word “murder” in the trash because it has no meaning anymore.

> In other words: DEI is just performative at Stanford. They say the care just to get people off their backs.

> Stanford is happy to lend their voice to racists, classists, anything, in the name of free speech. It doesn't matter that the policies of the people speaking have literally ruined lives, lead to suicides, and are now literally murdering mothers by denying them critical healthcare.

> We had all better damned be silent and respectful so that the powerful largely white largely male sexists and racists get their platform.

> Quite disgusting.

I genuinely can't tell if this is satire. "racist", "classist", "sexist", "white male", "literally murdering" all in one short post. The apoplectic hurling of slurs at the concept that someone might disagree with your views, and dare support the right for others to do so, is unhealthy. We can not have a society if this is how people react to disagreement.

> We can not have a society if this is how people react to disagreement.

Plain disagreement ends when people start to die.

Mothers in states that have banned abortion are now dying because they can't get care. People who are trans are dying at alarming rates because they can't get care. Guns are the leading cause of children.

>> Guns are the leading cause of children.

It's true. I shot my wife up and now I have 2 boys.

> Plain disagreement ends when people start to die.

Yes, if you inject enough hyperbole you can justify any sort of behavior. Luckily no one is actually "literally murdering" anyone, and these arguments are nothing but emotive nonsense.

> Guns are the leading cause of children.

That's quite a narrative.

>Plain disagreement ends when people start to die.

So what do you propose? Dropping all restrictions when combatting opposing views? To where is the bar lowered and what is acceptable?

Should it be acceptable that humans advocating for abortion rights in opposing states are shouted down? Worse?

> Mothers in states that have banned abortion are now dying because they can't get care. People who are trans are dying at alarming rates because they can't get care. Guns are the leading cause of children.

Please feel free scream at whomever you wish outside of a classroom or courtroom. FWIW judges and lawyers are required by their professional to engage in reasoned debate, and to explain their reasoning to the court/s and each other.

It was disappointing enough this incident happened in an academic environment. But attorneys represent their profession, as well as their clients and themselves. They have codes which govern their professional responsibility, and these actions speak to the character and fitness of these future applicants to the bar.

This was plainly unacceptable. I'm frankly surprised the college didn't go further in sanctioning the students.

And think of how many trans folks are aborted every year because their mothers can't get guns!

> in the name of free speech

Well it quite literally is free speech. And in california, private college actually do have to follow free speech principles, that you might otherwise incorrectly believe only apply to the government.

Yes, it is literally the law that private universities have to respect the free speech of students, in California.

The letter covers this.

Good to know, but of course we’d hope people would follow this out of principle, not simply because it’s required by law.

> literally murdering mothers

Please share a link to the criminal indictment for one of those murderers. Or even a link to a news story on the investigation into that murder. What municipality did this murder occur? What was the name of the victim?

I can share many stories of literal murders that have resulted from extremist left wing judges that gave low-or-no bond to multiple-time violent felons. Here’s one:

https://www.fox26houston.com/whats-your-point/suspects-out-o...

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