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The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. So your users would have to pay full price for a 2.0 upgrade.

You could of course buy outside the app store - but you don't want that. And I don't want that, too (as a dev selling my software). Purchase orders are a PITA and I have been shafted by enterprise more than once. They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me.

As much as I don't like what apple is doing with their app stores I hate enterprise even more. I don't want enterprise as a customer - no matter how much they promise to pay me. (And that sentiment is pretty universal with anyone who had to deal with enterprise customers). Sucks to be you, I guess.

> The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store.

That is not a real problem.

Many apps handle this by checking for a prior version and giving a discount (see Omni or Affinity approach), by having an upgrade window (e.g. 1Password approach before switching to subs outside app store), or by just charging full freight again (which nobody who values software actually minds, and enterprises that budget full retail software per person/year anyway definitely don't even think about).

If you charge $X a month over time and think that's fair, you can charge $X * 24 every two years, and let people who dislike the upgrade treadmill just sit on the old version till iOS APIs shift out from under them.

In the meantime, you had the two years cash up front which funds future development.

> They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me.

What are you talking about? The Apple Business Manager UI is a web based app store, one searches for the app, clicks to pay full retail, and you get your full money, immediately, the same as you get your IAP or sub. Meanwhile, the app is bought in bulk, assigned to the employee base, and you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any.

You don't talk to the enterprise and more importantly, I don't have to talk to you, or any other indie dev with weird bespoke purchasing processes not already approved by the enterprise procurement and expense systems.

> you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any

That's wishful thinking. No business buys 15,000 copies of an app just like that.

My experience from the point of view of an independent software developer is that:

1. The company will email you to fill out some forms because they are considering a bulk purchase. You get all excited and jump right into filling out their forms.

2. They will ask for a volume discount.

3. They will ask for some more forms to fill out. They'll casually mention that they are looking at competitors as well. Okay, maybe now they can finally make the purchase...

4. Ultimately they will order 5 licenses and move them around between employees as needed.

In the mean time, 50 private customers will have bought a license without ever contacting you.

If there's a market where businesses randomly buy 15,000 copies of an app let me know and I'll switch to making apps in that market.

(Also, in my experience, most bigger companies don't use Apple Business Manager, they buy software via resellers like Software One)

Can't agree more. Been through the "please fill out those forms to register with our software reseller" thing too many times. In the end they order 2 licenses.

Then there's those who absolutely need to send a purchase order with a 90+ days payment goal for what amounts to be $150 or so. 75% of the time I agreed to that I have never seen any money.

The worst are K12 districts who expect you to fill out government forms (+ extra forms because I'm not from the US) then to order 1 copy they share between all their students. I just resort to sending them a free license they can legally use for all their students.

Then there's the notable exceptions. A social network site for professionals somehow manages to just order 20 licenses with a credit card. Same goes for a search engine company. Or a certain operating system vendor. No fucking PO required. No forms. They just get a corporate credit card and use the Fast Spring webshop I set up.

I'm really done with corporate/enterprise bullshit. They can go to my competition and shower them with stupid purchase orders for 15,000 units. I prefer to keep my sanity.

>That is not a real problem.

It is to me. I don't want the app store full with different versions of my software that will confuse any prospect buyer.

I also don't want my main customers to feel shafted because every N months I just push out a new app at full price. What happens to the people who bought like 2 weeks ago? I have only 100 promo codes I can send out - and those who use promo codes can't write a review.

Ah yes, reviews. My $50 Mac App has over 700 reviews (4.8 avg rating). It took years to build that up. I'm not throwing this away just because some corporate admin waves the idea of someone purchasing "15,000" units (which is never going to happen anyway). Heck if you really intended to give me $750k you could contact me and I'd put up a special version of the app just for you. But guess what: You're never going to buy 15k units from me. Neither is anyone else.

So, my main customers are single users who are not in a corporate setting. They are my main source of revenue. I'm not going to fuck with them to get into the "maybe corporate is going to give you a million dollars" lottery. I've been doing this software business shit for too long to be that naive.

You're barking up the wrong tree here. Go to Apple and complain why you can't purchase IAPs with your magical Apple IDs.

> or by just charging full freight again

But is this possible with a one-time-full-price app in the App Store? It’s not, right? Once someone pays for your app, they get all updates forever. I think that’s what the person you were replying to was getting at.

Basically, there are 3 major purchase models for software:

1) I’m buying a forever license

2) I’m buying this major version only

3) I’m subscribing to this software on a monthly/yearly basis

The App Store only seems to support 1) and 3), but not 2). If you want to do 2), you have to roll it yourself outside of Apple’s infrastructure. Which means sending your own invoices, setting up your own key mechanisms, and all of that associated pain

Some devs make each major version its own app in the App Store. It has drawbacks, I suppose, but it works.

See e.g. 1Password 7, 1Password 8.

See the apps like PDF Expert from Readdle Docs.

See ... no need to itemize, as tons of successful app vendors make this work. It's not a real problem.

The macOS version of 1Password 8 isn’t on the App Store, presumably because of draconian pricing rules like this.

I’d be willing to bet anything it’s just because of the 30%.

Happens all the time. You rename v1 to 'AppX 1', and publish v2/latest as just 'AppX'. Would be much better if the App Store had paid major updates built in, but this is good enough.

[Except when they decide to spam the legacy version with upgrade nags, gray out the app icon and put a bright red 'OLD' tag on top - looking at you, Blinkshell]

I think you can solve that by copying your codebase and releasing version 3 under a different app ID.

You will lose all the reviews and start from 0. Apple will not allow 2 different versions at the same time.

This is just one more reason 3'rd party stores should exist.

If you think corporations will buy from the third party store that isn't built into the Apple Business Manager (plus MDM of choice) that lets you open shrink-wrapped Macs and hand them to the employee with all their apps self-installed, think again.

I think the ability to MDM manage 3rd party stores is part of table stakes for "3rd party stores should [be allowed to] exist".

Apple likes their walled garden.

Maybe not, but competition will put pressure on Apple to improove and offer more options for business models other than 1 and 3.

This is one of the things that bothers me about Apples app install process; I reinstall my OS often and when I start installing software via App Store, Apple displays the price and the notification that you will be charged never giving the user prior indication of whether the app is a new version that you will or will not pay for. With all the brilliant heads behind Apple you would think they would be able to get the UX right on this.

There's always the "purchased apps" list you get to by clicking on your Apple ID avatar in the lower left corner of the Mac App Store.

I have the same exact same issue. Managed Apple IDs are a joke, the only use I have for them is to backup the contacts of my users so that when they get a new device they get their email autocompletion back. Keychain sync is disabled. Using the App Store in any capacity is impossible. There's absolutely no way to use in-app purchases/subscriptions. I got almost laughed at by an Apple rep the other day when I asked if it was somehow possible, as an Apple Business administrator, to purchase extra iCloud storage space for a user.

This is a great article to send to those developers that only use IAP to license the complete version of their apps:

https://blog.kandji.io/in-app-purchases-for-enterprise-buyer...

Yeah managed Apple IDs don't work for most enterprises as they require the email and UPN to be the same. In our configuration this is different for a very good reason. We're not going to change 200.000 users just because Apple doesn't support something.

Also manually resolving duplicate accounts at this scale is impossible.

Managed Apple IDs were a nice idea but the implementation sucks. I was hoping they'd fix them after release but it's been like 4 years now and it hasn't happened.

Ran into the same issue recently implementing managed AppleIDs. I couldn't believe it.

No way to purchase >5GB of iCloud storage for staff using these IDs

WTF!? Is anyone aware of a workaround for this?

Little Snitch Mini seems to be almost a demo for Little Snitch, which you can buy outright with a license up front. So buy that for your employees.

https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/order.html

This doesn’t contain the mini product

The parent didn't want the mini product. He wanted the full paid version (what you get if you do the IAP in the mini product).

That’s still the mini product, just the paid version of it I believe

Now you're splitting hairs though.

The UI does look different, but functionality looks the same.

is the non-mini version also not acceptable? that's what i use and it has no iap.

right, i'm sure this guy is going to turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software vendor just because you want him to.

> turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software

They would just need to release a pro version of their app you can pay upfront in the App Store, and then release paid updates later following the same model. No need to "turn a company" into anything.

> and then release paid updates later following the same model.

How? Paid updates are not possible with the app store. If they were we wouldn't have to jump through those anti-user IAP and subscription hoops.

You just release a new version of the app at full price. Like Silvio Rizzi has been doing with Reeder for 5 major versions since 2010, pretty successfully.

So you litter the App Store with N + 1 versions of your app — where N is the number of major versions you’ve released plus the subscription version for non-enterprise end users. I mean sure, that may work, but it’s really ugly and it’ll probably confuse end users when they search for your app. Apple should account for this model in a better way.

I searched the app store and was only able to find "Reeder 5". As someone who hasn't purchased 4, it doesn't show up, so new users aren't confused. Old users are presumably able to figure out that the idea that the bigger number is the one they want.

As for "littering" Apple's app store, it's just rows in a database, of which there are millions. Waste sucks, but we're not talking about a meaningful amount here.

Completely agree, but in the meantime…

What OP is talkin’ about is “The Way” that Apple requires such devs to interface with its (not their) Business customers via its AppStore. Mac-only devs do have to cater to those customers whether they have them direct or resell thru MacAppStore, or they don’t make it very long. The problem with selling direct is that the Business customers all want the conveniences of only dealing with a single vendor (the Apple) since that’s possible now (via the MacAppStore).

Platform gatekeepers in 2023 should simply vet third-party app stores and award them a Certificate once they pass anti-Fraud. The hardware itself should otherwise run open source firmware that only enforces UL/FCC certification requirements and basic UI standards (be they audio, video, or network). If Apple wants to go beyond that, they can setup Claris or something with its own such Certificate to compete with Amazon and all the other potential third-party ecosystems. This hunk of garbage may look ridiculous, but cast it in an Al custom NC enclosure with miniLED and an m2ultra and… https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brother-geobook-nb-80...