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gorjusborg

I've never owned a Hyundai, but stuff like this makes me want to look at them.

I recently bought what I thought was a car, only to find it is a tech-ridden abomination.

I want a vehicle that is reliable. I want a vehicle that is simple. I do not want a rolling AI/touchscreen.

Even just from a security standpoint I want minimal software in my car.

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As a counter to all the replies, I have owned nothing but Hyundai and Kia since high school, and my family has owned several Kia and Hyundai vehicles. It would take something very major for me to consider another brand.

Their warranties are outstanding and long. My Kia engine was part of a recall, had an issue, but was then replaced out of warranty for free in less than a week during 2020. The engine now has a lifetime warranty. All of their warranty repairs, for small things, were done without hassle.

When we took a look at buying another car a few years ago, Kia and Hyundai were by far the best quality car out of everyone, including Honda. I think people to still shit on Kia and Hyundai because the names aren't Honda or Toyota. They have their issues, but in my experience, the warranty and recalls they did covered everything at no cost. And at this point, my Kia is an 8 year old model which was at the tail end of its model design even then.

I have zero concern about my Kia's reliability. I even drove my much older Hyundai well over 100,000 miles with hardly any maintenance before trading it in.

I was in the same boat until my car was stolen. If you haven't heard of it, look up the Kia Boys, though the same rules apply to Hyundais.

If you do manage to get the car back, you find yourself much more interested in car anti-theft measures, and will then discover that there are very limited options for parts due to the epidemic of them being stolen (66% of cars stolen in 2021 in Milwaukee, the center of the epidemic were Kia/Hyundai). And there is no indication that the company will be of any help going forward. The only real option is to not buy pre-2021 Hyundais/Kias.

This is an international problem, whith every location having a model/brand that's preferred by the thieves. Market forces and all that.

In South Africa, the best car security you can have by far is to simply park next to a VW Polo/Golf. The VW will _always_ be stolen first. Don't forget to set a reminder to go out at some point, so that you can move your car and park it next to another VW, as the first one would be stolen by then.

A close second are Toyota Hilux and Fortuner.

All these cars are super popular, both to own and steal. Result is insurance premiums that can be double normal rates, especially if you fall in the "young and reckless" demographic.

I have a hand-screw isolator on the battery of my my VW T5, like this

https://images.app.goo.gl/d5GXhBocg3gEjhbZA

I take the green screw part with me if I have any concerns, and sometimes even if it's parked in it's usual place at home.

I figure if a their tries to start the vehicle and it doesn't even turn on, they're likely to move to the next vehicle rather than muck about trying to troubleshoot mine.

It's low tech, and non-obvious.

I used to pull the accessories fuse, so it wouldn’t start.

My older Nissan Frontier has a fuse for the fuel injection. I pull that out if I ever park any place sketchy.

You are now the second person to recommend me an idea in that vein; I have just been using a steering wheel lock since I can't actually get an immobilizer rn. So I think I will actually materialize on your idea. Appreciate the comment.

Hmm another thought - tie the gas pedal to the steering wheel with a steel chain/lock.

Sure, they can cut your chain with bolt cutters, but that's not exactly inconspicuous, and it encourages would be theives towards easier marks. Probably cheaper than a wheel lock, too.

One step further I've thought of would be to buy two and remove the brass threaded contactor from one of the green hand screws and replace it with a nylon part so you could screw the dummy unit in to make it appear as though the unit is complete, thereby potential throwing off a savey would-be their who is familiar with the the trick of removing the contractor.

Another issue with some models of Kia and Hyundai is some insurance companies are now refusing to insure them due to how easy they are to steal. Imagine buying a car and calling up your insurance company to add it to your policy and...nope. I've never heard of that before.

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/09/hyundai-kia-models-state...

It is unfortunate for sure, but it doesn't affect fob only / pushbutton start cars. Kia and Hyundai have rectified the issue on newer models though and are at least giving away free wheel locks in certain areas, or so I've read.

I've heard reports that the newer models are still broken into at higher rates, despite thieves failing to steal it.

The way your comment reads is that 2022 and newer models are safe. Did something change in 2021?

The stolen cars were model years less than 2022 and were trims that needed a key to start the vehicle. Models that's used pushed button starts were unaffected.

You can see all the models affected and rollout of software to address it here: https://hyundaiantitheft.com/

A number of things including some insurance companies refusing to insure kia and hyundais. People wont buy your cars if they can't use them!

Shouldn't there be, like, a glut of parts on the gray market if they are stolen so often? They don't end up in chop-shops?

They steal them drive them around recklessly for a few hours, the crash into a light pole.

Its not professional criminals stealing these cars, its 13 year old kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw

Yeah, but a crashed auto is an instant organ donor of myriad parts. What happens to the crashed cars?

"Kia Boys", ok. Another euphemism to ad to the dictionary.

Same deal, my Hyundai was stolen 3 times from Sept 2021 to October 2022 when I finally sold it.

Was a huge headache.

3 times in a year? I'd be looking to move far, far away.

Yeah. That’s not a car-problem.

That’s living in a lawless neighbourhood kind of problem.

Move somewhere safe. Where cars don’t get stolen. You’ll probably find most other crime statistics beneficial too there.

So - people shit on Kia, because they remember what it was like before Hyundai owned it.

My sister bought a Kia around 2000. It was garbage. You have to go a ways farther back, but once upon a time Hyundai wasn't very good either. At some point (I guess in the 90's?) people started talking about how Hyundai had caught up to Toyota and Honda, and Ford and Dodge needed to do the same.

I've driven many Kia rentals the past ~15 years, and they are awesome. Even remembering all of what I wrote above, I was surprised at times at how premium the fit and finish was, and how powerful and smooth the ride was.

Yea, in the past decade or so, both Kia and Hyundai have stepped up their game to compete with Honda and Toyota. Great warranties, easy to work on, etc etc. I'm curious what the world will look like in another 20 years. Will Hyundai's get more expensive than Toyota? Will Honda bring prices down to better compete? Or will some Chinese startup roll in and attempt the same playbook as the previous brands? I any case, I think it's a net positive for consumers.

I had a 2006 Kia Spectra and learned to drive manual with it. Lasted for 10 years until it got rusty enough from winter salt that I wanted something else. Other than oil changes and front struts it was trouble-free.

I rented a Sonata once and drove it 3500 miles without issues. But since then my impression of Hyundai has deteriorated. Had another die on me while driving on I-85 in a rush hour Atlanta. It was scary. Then all these reports of engine fires and theft because of lack of immobilizers.

I'd like to buy Kia or Hyundai, but personally I find the interiors both look and feel "cheap", even on the high-end models like the Kia Stinger. Interiors from BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volvo look and feel so much more luxurious.

I leased a Kia Niro EV last year (EV FOMO made me unwilling to commit to a car right now, plus the used car market was obscene). I’ve been generally delighted with it, excluding the stupid Bluetooth auto connect nonsense.

I own two Hyundai (2007 Entourage, 2015 Sonata), and a 2022 Honda Odyssey. My initial impression of the Honda is far better than it was for my Hyundais. We'll see how it progresses over time, but as of now, I don't plan to buy Hyundai again. The only thing I hate about my Honda is I can't turn default-to-off that stupid setting that kills the engine and restarts it automatically whenever you stop the vehicle at a light or stop sign.

I don’t have one myself, but every time I hear the engine restart at a stop sign I’m tempted

https://www.idlestopper.com/product/idlestopper/1

You’re comparing cars that are a generation or two apart. Not really a fair comparison.

I can’t speak for their EV line, but no media is talking about how crappy their engines are. I won’t touch a KIA or Hyundai and I have zero qualms speaking up about it. My brother and I both needed new engines after 50,000 miles with normal wear and maintenance. If you read up on oil consumption you will discover they have had problem’s continually since 2014. Last I checked the 2021 +models are still affected. Getting the engine replaced is getting harder as they can’t keep up with engine demand. It’s a 4000 mile set of tests and BS. KEEP ALL YOUR SERVICE RECORDS and keep your maintenance schedule, or you will be paying anywhere from $16,000 USD to fix it on your own dime.

They do have a history of cheaping on parts. When we had a KIA, all sorts of problems with CV joints, and power steering components, all expiring around 130,000km or so. Just lower quality seals & parts on drivetrain components, that lasted just until out of drivetrain warranty, if I recall.

Their EVs seem well built, from watching Sandy Munro videos, anyways. (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igFytqIMp0A)

But they're also so-far all in the upper tier of price ranges. Nobody is really making a 'budget' EV yet, apart from maybe GM with the Bolt.

Expiring at 130k KM seems sort of reasonable? How long do you expect those parts to last?

130k km == 81k mi, for the metrically-impaired.

CV joints, drivetrain, power steering ... in a "reliable" vehicle, will last at least double or triple that!

Depends how and where you drive it, and what ride quality you will put up with.

Around 80k miles upgrading to better aftermarket suspension components is usually worth it.

The wildest part for me is that the turbo variants they're selling in Europe seem to be perfectly fine. In the N cars there only seem to be clutch issues (and other stuff that's only relevant if you track them). My family has driven Korean cars since 2008 without ANY issues and I'm perfectly happy with my i30N.

Strangely, Does Hyundai/Kia have some difference wrt engines in US and India? Never heard anyone complain about engine in India even after 62k miles, they are quite popular among taxi drivers, who definitely stress the engine more than enough. Indian roads can be quite punishing on cars.

It IS strange! Hyundai and Kias are the most reliable cars in America right now https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cars-with-the-fewest-and-ch...

Note that it appears CarMD is basing this on data largely from 1995-2015. That’s well under the likely time/miles when KIA/Hyundai would have started to have engine trouble s.

Taxis are one of the least stressed engines as they stay at operating temperature for most of their life, more so when they are run 24/7 with multiple shifts.

In Indian traffic cars are constantly revving and slowing down. And Indian taxis are worst maintained. We don't have regulations enforcing it. And the driving of the majority of taxis is also haphazard. I'm not aware of any ideal taxi situation that you're speaking of in the Indian context.

Most engine wear is from cold starts.

That only matters if your design isn't garbage to begin with.

If you have some Toyota 22RE-esque timing component eating abomination or some Navistar 6.0-esque headgasket eating abomination the thing won't last long enough for normal wear to dominate the equation.

I’ve read some threads either here or on Reddit from mechanics saying it was the 2.0 engine (I think the CVT versions) that crapped out like this and they used that engine in a ton of models. Anecdotal, but mine is an old 2013 Kia with a 1.6 engine with DCT like all their turbos / top of line models and I’ve had no mechanical issues at all yet, but I’m looking to buy soon and I won’t consider their 2.0s out of caution.

My 2012 Accent had this issue with a 2.0 engine. Started burning oil around 90K miles and was getting worse by the day. To their credit, Hyundai replaced the full engine at no cost right at 100K miles thanks to the warranty - I have had the car for 10 years without incident, so it's pretty cool to get a brand new engine. I'd buy another Hyundai just because their warranty is so kick-ass

IIRC Kia or Hyundai has longest warranty - something like 8 years.

There are a few people in this thread saying their engines seized within the warranty period but weren’t covered by Kia, so this warranty might not be as useful as it sounds.

It used to be 10

One of mine has a seized engine at 66k miles. I’ve been waiting 2 months for the pleasure of paying $6k for a replacement. It is hopelessly backordered. I plan to sell mine as soon as I’m able.

It is sad to see even the more 'conservative' (design wise) car companies following this design. Lexus gets a lot of flak for boring/old tech interiors but give me their 2010s design over 'modern' touch screen/capacitive button all-the-things any day. Shame they haven't got more plugin hybrids or EV options though, their build quality/design in my experience makes a lot of other cars feel rushed.

My parents had a 2021 Hyundai Santa Fe top trim, and the design was a mess. A part from lane keeping, it had nothing my 10+ years older Lexus RX didn't have, and I found so many aspects of driving it counter-intuitive. I'm glad they are keeping real buttons, but I also hope they start removing things/make them simpler.

It's crazy to me that people think a "boring" interior is a bad thing. I want my car to be as boring, functional, and familiar as possible. I never want to think about my car except when it needs maintenance.

Hyundai’s are being stolen[0] left and right where I live.

[0]: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/hyundai-kia-p...

A friend had a Hyundai Elantra. He needed new brakes so we went to Autozone, picked up some pads and then we jacked it up. I was flabbergasted - they were the easiest brakes to change in any car I have ever done. One bolt, swing the calipers up, pop the old pads out, plug in the new ones, swing the caliper down and put the bolt back in. Had both done in 20 minutes. It was amazing. A car actually DESIGNED to be serviced.

A few months later the crank angle sensor went out - again it was the easiest car to work on I have ever seen. The sensor was out in the open, not buried under a bunch of crap. One 10mm bolt, and the harness connector was easily accessible too. Five minutes and we were done.

Apparently it's no accident - their attention to detail carries over into their construction equipment too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUi4Fc_8hE

Oh yeah, car had 250,000 miles on it and still ran like a top while getting 40MPG. Other than using a little oil. For a "cheap" car I was beyond impressed.

I just bought an Ioniq 5 a couple of months ago. The buttons are legit great, and the EV drive train is top notch.

Loving it so far.

I loved the look and interior of the Ioniq 5. However when testdriving it, it felt sitting on a plank getting tossed about while going over roundabouts. I also had it loose grip and have the FWD kick in in situations and conditions that have never been an issue at higher speeds in my previous (smaller and lower) cars and my current XC90.

maybe it had something to do with the large amount of power it has. But it felt scary enough for me to not try it.

I had the exact same feel when test driving it. It has problems cornering and driving in winter conditions.

Hmm. I've driven on snowy roads and found it to be better at handling than any other car I've driven, even counting cars that had dedicated snow tires (whereas the Ioniq only had all-season tires).

It also has a "snow mode" to help with particularly bad roads. I found at least one review that puts its snow handling down as a "pro", so it's not just me. [1]

I did get the Limited AWD with the 20" wheels. Not sure if that makes a difference.

[1] https://www.hotcars.com/2023-hyundai-ioniq-5-review/

I suppose the tires do matter a lot. I’ve driven an AWD (not sure whether it was a limited edition). The grip was indeed better in AWD mode, at the loss of range but the tossing around is still there. Maybe that would have been fixed completely by Sport seats.

Still, I’ve never had a car lose grip like the Ioniq 5. For the FWD cars that is expected, but also the RWD I have is easier to handle.

Ive never had a Hyundai but I recently rented a Sonata and wow! It had all the high end perks of other cars like top down parking view and a beautiful widescreen for my apple CarPlay! And driving it was great! I was seriously impressed and I enjoyed driving it for the several days I had it.

The human race with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine.

Hyundai is on a roll now. IONIQ 5 is one of the fastest-charging EVs, and yes, still has physical buttons.

I wish someone would EV a convertible, a glass roof is nice, but a convertible cannot be heavier that all that glass.

What I really want is the Wuling Hong Guang Mini EV Cabrio in the US.

Here's some pictures, that thing is so cute https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/09/gms-wuling-mini-ev-cabr...

I'd especially love it as a vacation rental. A Hawaiian trip with that thing would be great.

Do you have a picture of it next to an F150? That might be why they don't allow cars that small, though the Feds would never admit it.

Soundly like they’re picking the wrong cars to not allow in that case.

Unfortunately the second you talk about banning large trucks in cities, someone comes along worrying about the policy applying to their rural town / homestead.

Why would an F150 be relevant? The highways are dominated by much larger tractor trailers.

You can't always drive a heavy duty truck like that in the city. You have to take certain routes a lot of the time.

Also F150s and similar are somewhat commonly used as commuter vehicles.

In most of the US you can. It would be very difficult to drive in the US in a way that avoids those trucks without restricting yourself to some tiny core.

Heh. Neat little city car, I like it.

it's about aero, not weight. EVs have great range at low speed and at high speed rolling resistance is 90+% of your drag. glass holds a very smooth curve extremely well.

We bought a 2020 Hyundai Palisade. Absolutely freaking lot it.

Lane assist is unreal. It eases 90%+ of the standard driving fatigue.

I have a Genesis G70 2021. It is fantastic; best car I've ever owned. I don't see myself buying anything other than Genesis, if my budget permits. So many awesome features and almost all of them are controlled by dials. I absolutely love it.

Had a tiny Kia rental recently for few months - small display for wireless Carplay and reversing camera, buttons otherwise. Perfect combination.

All that said wish there was more audio commands and overall remote start gets close to Tesla (who is far from perfect too).

Buy a Mazda

In about 10 years when they are finally serious about EV's

I'm convinced Mazda could have taken over the world with an electric CX-5. What a missed opportunity. Hopefully it's not too late for them as I think it's one of the nicer, and more tasteful vehicles on the road.

This has been linked to on reddit, and it's being called out that a few 2023 Hyundai models have capacitive buttons and touchscreen controls; Tucson, Ioniq, Verna at least.

>tech-ridden abomination. Ok I'll bite, what was this abomination? Did it require logging into an app to start?

Mazda? They don’t even have touchscreens

They do, however I found it very intuitive on a CX-9. You rotate a dial and it scrolls through all options.

On the mazda 6 at least, there's a touchscreen for the native nav/media/etc software, but the touchscreen is disabled if you use Android Auto and are forced to use the dial interface. Go figure.

The newer models skipped on touchscreen entirely though.

What you probably want is a 4runner.

Guess what, most if not all cars today have what's called an ECM which is essentially a computer that controls your engine among other things. It's certainly a very easy task to flash that ECM as long as your inside that car and can plug in common off the shelf devices and have your car very quickly be unable to start.

Unless you're buying a car that's a decade old you cannot find what you want.

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