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Maybe is safer for Linux to refuse to enter in this viper pit of sanctions and politics until waters calm down a little. Specially in the same day that a team of covered Russian agents were caught in Poland planning several boycotts in NATO territory. The mistrust is not totally unreasonable at this moment.
If I understand correctly, the Russian company proposed including a patch for their own hardware, so the Kernel can manage it. Are the CPUs created by this company banned so important for everybody to grant to be supported by the Linux team? Defying the international sanctions against the company could harm the image of the kernel project. What will be this CPUs used for? To help Russians evade the sanctions and keep the war longer? To save lives? To put it in a missile so they kill children faster?
Because right now it looks like a Polish/EE guy using geopolitical events as an excuse to bully his national enemies on the internet. It's a politically-correct "f__k off and never come back". Totally unprofessional.
And Jakub is saying that "we don't feel comfortable". Discomfort can be for multiple reasons, not all of which may be known to the person (or given the "we", possibly people) feeling uncomfortable.
Asserting boundaries is rarely bullying. And I personally don't think this message, in the context we have here, rises past the level of asserting boundaries to bullying. Maintaining boundaries is a good thing that everyone has to learn to do, and have the fortitude to do. It's not easy.
This is not that.
The key is that the onus is clearly on the sanctions themselves, not the uncomfortable feelings of a mysterious "we".
"I don't feel comfortable leaving pertinent information out of our regulatory filing, even if it's technically not against the law to do so."
Letting another person you are working with know that you are uncomfortable is the polite way to enforce personal boundaries in a professional, or personal, setting.
Not really. They proposed patches for network drivers for ethernet IP-core which was licensed from Synopsis, California. Most likely as a part of P5600 MIPS IP from Imagination. This IP core is not specific for Baikal SoCs and used in many products.
They were already sanctioned by the Obama admin because they were "associated with military procurement activities, including the development of computer systems for military end-users and the production of computers for nuclear research". That was rescinded a year later. Now it's back for reasons that should be obvious.
You can ignore what's going on in the world and say that open source is completely detached from that, or you can say you're not comfterable going out of your way to include support for Russian processors for Russian arms. Clearly there is some point at which you can't ignore politics: few people would claim IBM did nothing wrong selling the Nazi regime equipment.
Didn't IBM the current owner of Redhat supply equipment to the Nazis which was used to document and track Jews?
By the way who are the "We" in "We don't feel comfortable accepting patches from or relating to hardware produced by your organization."?
There are a lot of 3 letter agencies submitting patches to the linux kernel ( for ex. NSA). Do they feel "comfortable" accepting patches from those organizations ?
Should we continue to make those same bad decisions now, no.
I explicitly mentioned IBM's involvement in the holocaust. But that's a historical event; not an on-going one. You can trace the genealogy of almost everyone an everything to something evil if you go back far enough.
I think comparing the Russian and US military is a false equivalence. Do I think the US is innocent? No. But it's just not on the same order.
Of course. The US killings look almost "human" (Serbia, Irak, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Corea etc). And having other country's people killed just to follow US interest shows a lot of empathy. /s
Seriously?
Setting aside those that the US was directly involved in such as Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, how about the war between and Iraq and Iran that the US urged Saddam Hussein on which resulted in about 500,000 dead, for starters? In those days Saddam was the bestie of the US so long as he stuck it to Iran.
How about the sanctions on medical supplies to Iraq which resulted in about 500,000 deaths of Iraqi children?
Have you forgotten about the invasion of Grenada and Panama that the US invaded to install governments after their own heart? Very much like Russia's invasion of Ukraine only those wars were very much shorter because of the overwhelming might of the US.
Sadly the war on Ukraine is lasting much longer because Ukraine has the support of the US, until the US decides that China warrants more attention.
... Sadly? I guess the Ukrainians should just bow over and welcome their new Russian overlords? Or what are you suggesting here?
I'm not going to comment on every single example, but in many there is significantly more nuance to most of them as I've explained in some other comments already. Does that mean it's "good"? Not necessarily, but it does mean it's just not the same as a completely unwarranted baseless invasion. The specifics of the situation DO matter and you can't just tally military interventions like that.
Life for the masses of the people is generally the same no matter who rules them. When this war is over the Ukrainian rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer as it has been in the US for the last 40 years or so.
The idea that life for Ukrainians under Russian hegemony will be worse than life under a EU/US hegemony is false.
The Ukrainian regimes of the last 15 years decided to turn the country into one the sticks it to Russia on behalf of the US. They basically sacrificed their countrymen's wellbeing to service the geopolitical goals of the US and now Ukrainians are suffering dearly for it.
Read this - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35180460
I can't be repeating myself on the Russian/Ukraine war ad infinitum.
This war is not being sustained for the benefit of ordinary Ukrainians. This war will end, and that end will involve negotiations, whether this year or in 10 years time. The main sufferers here are the Ukrainians, not their political leaders who have stashed enough abroad to live comfortable lives no matter the outcome of the war, and the US can bribe them even further to prolong the war as much as is possible, much as they bribed Saddam Hussein to prosecute the war against Iraq for 8 years.
Whatever the Western powers are doing in Ukraine, is it not for the benefit of the ordinary Ukrainian, just the bankers and the industrialists.
Dead wrong. Countries that the Soviet Union occupied in WW2 are a great example of that. They were near or at parity with Western Europe in 1930s, but after 50 years of Soviet occupation, they barely exceeded pre-occupation levels in main economic metrics by the late 1980s. After the Soviet Union collapsed, countries like Lithuania have seen their GDP per capita increase by 10x, approaching Western European levels that they had before. The Russian rule was a sickness that held them back, robbing several generations of economic development and prosperity. I'd rather die in a trench than experience the same Russian-imposed despair, hopelessness and utter poverty what my parents went through.
Please include support in the kernel for fixing my hardware problems so I can bomb Finland and Swedden, Thanks.
XOXO, Vlad"
What they mean with "good try man, but that would be extremely stupid?" This is soo unfair!! Grenada!! Panama!!
I want to stop this thread because they always end up in stupid comparisons.
This is about a fricking code submit.
It really depends on propaganda. Sadly, you don't get it. IMHO open source shouldn't be a place to decide who's wrong or who's right.
When watching "Finding Your Roots" and other genealogy shows I always think when the interviewer asks the person how they feel about the misdeeds of an ancestor: We are all descended from rapists, murderers, and cannibals.
And as you imply, we've all done bad in our past. That's part of the experience of learning. It's what we do now that matters. A moment of silence for everyone's first pet.
If you're going to quibble, the US never sent any forces to Libya. France and the UK provided aerial support to a no-fly zone imposed by a UN resolution, with the US providing some naval support as well. So why does that qualify as an "invasion"?
(Actually, if you really want to quibble, Russia has invaded Ukraine twice in the past decade--the Russian invasion of Crimea/Donbass in 2014 should probably be counted as distinct from the invasion effort starting in 2022, given that they provided very different levels of support and had very different material war aims.)
Which is more plausible when the target of your invasion shares a land border with you.
> arguably it is fair to include interventions in which Wagner is a major player
Iraq was ruled by a genocidal dictator.
Does that mean those wars were a good idea? By my estimation, probably not, for a number of reasons. But they're not they're same thing at all as Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It's borderline bad-faith to even compare it.
I don't which other two you're referring to, but I'm willing to bet they're not the same thing at all either.
Anyways, I'm not going to play the "let's take turns justifying the illegal invasions of distant sovereign countries" game.
You can dismiss it as a "game", but the reasons and specifics of the situation DO matter. A lot. Denying this means, for example, that the Nazi invasion of Poland is just the same as the allied invasion of Nazi Germany. After all, both are foreign invasions in a sovereign country. No reasonable person would agree these situations are the same; the invasion in to Nazi territory was horrible because all war is, but was, in the end, a good thing. The same cannot be said about the invasion of Poland.
[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/21/595497429/...
[2] https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tons-uranium-mis...
Arguing that Washington technically didn't invade any of these countries because there were already internal tensions is laughably stupid (what has been happening in Donbass since 2014?). Kindly knock it off.
From an atheist perspective, the US looks exactly like being ruled by "religio-fascist nutjobs"