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Comment by windex | Hacker News Reader

Normal web search is doomed. The people creating SEO out of ChatGPT dont realize that I am not going to be searching for answers by reading page upon page of SEO optimized pages anymore. I will ask an AI directly, and of late it has been a god send in terms of code and systems administration. First time right in most simple cases and queries.

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Hope you enjoy endless product placement in your search queries.

> Looks like you want to ask about how to administer your Kubernetes cluster. While I am an AI and not qualified to give advice on how to run mission-critical systems, I can heartily recommend the amazing Azure Managed Kubernetes, which is Gartner-certified for painless six-sigma reliability!

Why imagine when you can experience the future now: https://future.attejuvonen.fi (from a recent thread here).

The big tech products might have this, but there will be competitors that don't.

ChatGPT style AI is an example of an innovation that seems to be very capital intensive. People are generally not going to be spinning up viable competitors in their garage. The reliance on tons of capital up-front will drive the need to monetize the resulting product in as many ways as possible to recoup the investment.

I don't agree. Within a couple years wealthy technocrats will absolutely be spinning up low cost minimal ad LLMs in their garage. Running these things certainly isn't cheap, but most of the cost is in training which can be crowdfunded and the model released for free. At which point anyone with 100k can buy a computer that can run the model commercially.

We're also seeing smaller models with equivalent performance such as the recent one from facebook. If that trend continues it will be even easier for small groups to train and run models with minimal advertising.

Within a couple years wealthy technocrats will absolutely be spinning up low cost minimal ad LLMs in your browser. Running these things certainly isn't cheap on your battery, but that's a cost they're willing to pay.

The LLaMA 13B and 30B models that Facebook leaked a few days ago have already been successfully spun up on home-grade GPUs using 8-bit and 4-bit quantization, and they work surprisingly well:

https://rentry.org/llama-tard-v2

30B is not quite as good as ChatGPT yet, but that's mainly a function of fine-tuning quality prompts, and the model is comparable in principle. There are already scripts for fine-tuning, so I expect plenty of pre-tuned chat models to show up very soon now.

there will be non-rent-seeking competitors that will raise $11B and will have nothing to do with big tech. Got it.

Once a model is trained thats 99% of the work. Open source models or a hacker leaking a major model will be enough to compete.

It's been 20+ years and people still pay for Photoshop instead of using GIMP. I think it's safe to say that the commercial models will continue to be a few steps ahead of the free stuff so people will continue using them.

Blender is the counter example. Usage of Blender far exceeds the close source alternative.

Thhe favourable closed source alternatives fell behind in features. Rip modo.

You won't need $11B to create an LLM in a couple years. Stable diffusion has created the blueprint for open source large models. Sure it might be worse in some sense than the cutting edge ad bloated products, but some people will take that tradeoff.

Maybe nation-states? You'd just get a different kind of ads then I guess.

I think this will occur with free AI based search, since it would be a similar business model to Google (if not more bias/intrusive)

The alternative (which I think in todays age vs when google came out, is more readily accepted by the masses), will most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement.

But to what I think your point is, the further removed one is from the original docs/content/etc, the more likely/able some middleman is to inject their own economic/political incentives, which is of concern. Especially when AI has a political bias, regardless of where it originates.

>most likely be a subscription-based tool that caters to specific niches and avoids product placement.

Have you not been paying attention? The expensive subscription based plan will ALSO have ads and product placement. These businesses just can't help themselves

who in their right mind would give up tens of billions of ad revenue? the ads are coming no matter what.

Yes that’s possible and probable. However I dream that it will ba a paid subscription businesses model or at least non ad driven.

It isn't doing it right now.

The tech that detects that you're asking a racist question can detect you're asking about Kubernetes or orchestration in general and serve you up an ad as easily as it serves up an explanation of why you shouldn't ask racist questions. It is no different to the AI at all.

I think the list-of-links Web search paradigm has plenty of time left, for at least three reasons: (1) A good chunk of a typical user's needs are to do something, not to find an answer to a question; (2) Google is lightning fast compared to present-day chat interfaces; (3) "keywordese" may be an unnatural input language for search queries, but it's faster than having a dialog.

I still make dozens of Google queries per day, and do maybe 1 or 2 ChatGPT sessions per week, and I'm quite aware of all the capabilities and deficits of each. I wondered why this was, until I reflected on the things I actually search for on Google (Go to https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity and filter to just show "Search"). This was a useful exercise. What percentage of your recent queries would have worked well, and more quickly, on ChatGPT? For me it was less than 1/10...

How will the ai know the answer if it's trained on SEO (AIO?) content?

Why do you think your ChatGPT account will produce better content than the spammers’ ChatGPT accounts?

> Normal web search is doomed.

I hope not. The likes of ChatGPT don't do what I want a search engine to do. If normal web search is doomed, then how will I find any good new stuff on the web?

I settled for reading the docs and searching github issues like a caveman. I wonder if this'll eventually popularize low-key advertisements in bug reports. Like "I scanned the repo using this (my company's) tool and found mixed usage of ' and ""

I have seen this once in the issues in sveltejs/svelte (couldn't find the link though.) It had been closed by moderators fairly soon, I wonder how long it will take for the amount of this thing to surpass the capacity of voluntary efforts.

Keyword stuffing never dies.

AI assistants have the same conceptional disadvantage as "normal web search" -- they provide secondary, interpreted information, and once _any_ incentives are there to alter the interpretation, it becomes corrupt and less useful. There haven't been a thing marketers didn't find a way to ruin, you know.

>I will ask an AI directly And you will get lots of wrong answers.

The SEO out of ChatGPT is for boomers and other clueless people. The dead internet theory is true.

Average user doesn't know about AI. Average user is 99% of the society. We are the only ones who are doomed.

Ive observed the average user go from zero to hero on ChatGPT in about 30 minutes.

ChatGPT is the fastest growing consumer product in history

At this point I don't think I could find a single person I know who doesn't know about ChatGPT, not all of them have tried it, but anyone who consumes any amount of news has heard it.

I think almost everyone knows about it but nobody in my circle of family and friends that isn't a developer is using it beyond just playing with it after hearing about it, though I've suggested it to my mom and brother for certain tasks.

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