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Comment by skyyler | Hacker News Reader

I order my medications illegally because it's so much cheaper than doing it through the legitimate system.

how is this not stealing from people who are buying these drugs through the legitimate system.

Wow thats a big assumption that the system the user is circumnavigating is legitimate. Their are 2 "official" reasons for that system, safety and patent protection. While both have their merits they don't legitimatize the current state of that system. By your definition the only difference in its status of legality is the location those drugs are purchased and used. This is a very flaky foundation for your argument of legitimacy and the outcome of theft. Most of the time any legitimate protest against what you believe is wrong elicits shouts of "theft", "illegitimate", "think of the children", "safety". This conversation would be much more productive if you provided any examples of that theft or support for why the system is legitimate to begin with. That being said I do think the system has a place but it desperately needs overhauled and people seeking alternatives to the system aren't the problem but the canary in the coal mine signalling the weakest of our fellow citizens can't make do with the system that should be serving them.

" because it's so much cheaper"

thats the reason gp is doing it. has nothing to do with all the stuff you've written. Gp doesn't care about 'weakest fellow citizens' plight or whatever, infact they don't care that prices for 'weakest citizens' might go up from his actions.

I think your misguided in thinking someone who purchases outside the system is contributing to higher costs when you have fraud like this taking place in the government run systems let alone the private systems. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/09/how-medicare-and-medicaid-fr...

Funny you see the theft in one direction and not the other. Isn't the black market just a natural expression of agents engaging in free market principles?

… because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another?

The drugs are paid for, they’re not stolen, and they’re not taken from the people who are buying the drugs another way - they’re separate systems. That’s actually more ridiculous than calling media piracy ‘theft’ and that’s a high bar. I honestly don’t see how you could possibly see the illegal drug trade as ‘stealing’

> … because stealing would require something being taken away from one person and being possessed by another?

wouldn't it raise prices for legitimate buyers? ( ppl not willing to commit a federal crime) , hence taking money away from them.

Why on earth would it do that? If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price.

Because capital expects profits. Why on earth would anyone invest capital in biotech if its losing money.

> If anything I'm reducing demand for "legitimate" avenues, which should reduce the price.

These aren't stale muffins at your local grocery store to induce demand by lowering prices. These are supposedly life saving 800/month drugs, what would be the motivation for lowering prices.

They're drugs. The market in America wants $800/mo. The international online market wants what comes out to $34/mo.

It's the same drug. It costs $34 online because that's how much it costs for the factory to produce it and make a profit. It costs $800 in America because that's how much my insurance company decided I'm going to pay for it. It would be idiotic for me, with my extremely limited funds, to pay for the American one.

ok tell that to the judge when they send you to prison, smh.

You need to be less angry.

Because there is no actual theft going on? Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence - it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported.

> Are you suggesting that local “legitimate” users pay higher costs to recoup R&D expenses? I’d love to hear the evidence

Yes ? Are you suggesting they that comes out of pharma profits?

> it sounds a lot to me like the “piracy is theft” argument which has not been proved or well supported.

No because not taking medication isn't an option like not watching a pirated movie.

Perhaps a closer analogy is shoplifting . Sure some amount of stealing is accounted for in the system but large scale shoplifting gets passed on to consumers.

I think the pricing is based on the maximum amount each individual can bear, independent of costs. If your hypothesis was accurate, we should see prices go up when sales go down (independent of the cause of the sales drop). I don't think that is clear, but open to evidence if you have it handy.

There might be a long term impact where fewer drugs are developed because there are lower profits, but even that feels awfully close to the "piracy hurts creative industries" argument that has been proven inconclusive at best and directionally wrong at worst.

There is a reason why patents have time limits.

Friend, I still purchase them from companies that manufacture the drugs.

Just not through the non-free American prescription drug market.

How am I stealing from people that can afford $800/mo medications by ordering them at actual market value?

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