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Comment by tagyro | Hacker News Reader

That is actually meant to keep the connection to a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse when using the computer in clamshell mode.

Apples clamshell mode support is super confusing IMHO. This is once thing Windows does better at least by default. Perhaps Macs can be configured to what I expect but I personally have struggled with getting it to work in a way that satisfies me.

For those of us without both in our lives, can you be more specific on the differences that makes Window's system better?

Sure, so I primarily use Macbook Pro's that companies provide me. I work from home and use USB-C docks to connect the Macs to external displays, keyboards, and networking.

In general, Windows 10 computers work on boot in clamshell mode. Drivers load, external USB devices are useful, displays work.

On Apple devices, corporations *must* enable FileVault, a full disk encryption utility, to meet some compliance standards. The problem is that Apple really locked this down, even to USB-C docks. My docks use the Display Link driver to load the screens, so as a result I need to physically open the laptop every day, use the laptop keyboard to enter my password, wait for the login process to complete, then close the laptop and connect the dock.

It would be very nice if they could allow some drivers to be whitelisted, or even make an "official" apple dock with full FileVault support.

I suppose I could use a Mac Studio or Mini, but corporations seem dead set on providing laptops to employees.

Other than that I would say Windows generally handles scaling better, but this is an area that the latest OS (Ventura) really improved. Macs today are much better at scaling and switching displays than in the past.

Thanks for responding. Even if you don't deal with PII datasets, I sure hope your windows laptop is also encrypted at rest.

Just fyi, at least on my M1 MacBook, a regular, non-Displaylink (ie HDMI or Display Port connection) doesny require opening the laptop to login, even using an Bluetooth keyboard. I'm sure there's a usb-c hub that's your preferred form factor if you don't like the dongle-style breakout boxes.

Windows computers use BitLocker and somehow the very same dock works fine in clamshell mode.

I have 2 MacBook Pros, both with FileVault enabled, one managed by my employer and the other personal. My USB-C dock also uses DisplayLink and I primarily use the machines in clamshell mode.

I don't have the issue you're referring to unless I completely shut off either machine, which I almost never do. Do you completely power off your machine at the end of each day? When the machine is just locked my external displays power up and display the login screen just fine.

The rule is that it must be powered, have a keyboard connected, and have an external display plugged in. It is very confusing especially since everything cuts out if your power source turns off, but this does allow some monitors to provide power+USB+one display over a single C cord to enable clamshell mode.

Kind of unrelated but it sucks that Macs don't do multiple displays over a single cable because Apple refuses to support it in their GPU via the built-in MST hub (that otherwise is put to use for driving the Pro Display XDR).

I feel the opposite way. Trying to get Windows laptops to keep outputting to an external display with the lid closed has always been a hassle for me.

You just go into the power plan and select the dropdown to "nothing" for what to do "when the lid is closed".

>Trying to get Windows laptops to keep outputting to an external display with the lid closed has always been a hassle for me

Can't concur with this. My windows laptop is has its lid closed and is outputting to a display. Only thing I do is uncheck the default behavior of putting the laptop to sleep when the lid is closed. This should be enough. Did you do this?

"Clamshell mode" is more than just not going to sleep when lid is closed: it still goes into sleep when you close the lid and have no monitor attached, which also means it goes to sleep if you unplug the monitor and lid is already closed, and out of sleep when lid is closed and you plug a monitor. (TBH I don't know if Windows does that or not)

There may be conditions around having input devices as well, can't recall exactly.

There also used to be a setting to disable wake up from bluetooth devices but it seems to have disappeared. (I was using that setting to prevent a DualShock 4 gamepad - which powers on all too easily - connected via bluetooth to wake the computer)

It would be great if certain types of bluetooth devices could remain connected. Physical input devices only would likely be a good default. There is little reason, IMO, for speaker connections to be active. In clamshell mode, I would expect all bluetooth connections to be active, but while suspended, please drop nonessential connections. Being able to override the default disconnect rules per device would be ideal.

> There is little reason, IMO, for speaker connections to be active.

A few comments down:

> @asveikau: I think you should be able to play music while the lid is closed. That seems like a reasonable use case.

Also, wouldn't having a different behaviour, based on specific classes of devices, create more confusion for users?

Oh, and, all together now: Bluetooth sucks!

They don't let me use an HDMI display without external power while closed, so why let me use bluetooth without power?

The opposite is also true. You can’t officially use a Macbook in clamshell mode (eg, as a headless media server) even when connected to power. When you close the lid without a connected display, the official MacOS behaviour is to put the computer to sleep. You need a third-party tool to prevent it from sleeping.

Yet when my Macbook is asleep in my bag with no peripherals attached, my headphones will connect and wake the Mac.

The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. It literally makes no sense.

I think we're agreeing - my point is that it doesn't make sense to allow bluetooth when they won't even allow a display (no power, laptop closed). What are you going to use the bluetooth for, moving a mouse you can't even see?

...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected, but then communication could be disabled by the person who stole your laptop. So Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location.

> ...and they could make it so it stays on only of there's an external display connected

Not always, my monitor goes to sleep and turns off. At this point, macOS should turn Bluetooth off? How would I wake the computer then? I would have to open it.

> Find My would not be able to find and more importantly report a location.

That might be another reason why Bluetooth stays on. On a laptop, I'd rather have Find My working in clamshell mode (given the theft risk).

> Not always, my monitor goes to sleep and turns off. At this point, macOS should turn Bluetooth off? How would I wake the computer then? I would have to open it.

So I’m not sure about turning off bluetooth entirely, but waking via bluetooth should be turned off when the laptop is closed without a display attached. There is no use case for waking via bluetooth without a display.

> There is no use case for

There are a ton, computers are incredibly useful devices.

If I close the screen I can play music out of those speakers for a pretty long time. And if I can sleep/wake from a Bluetooth keyboard when I’m not using it, I can stretch that into a long weekend.

…or at least I can on Windows where this is possible.

I wonder if there are more people like you or more into turning it off.

+1 for using a MacBook in clamshell mode most of the time.

I exclusively use it with the lid closed. However, I use wired everything. I use external speakers, monitor, keyboard, mouse, wacom, and dslr camera for webcam. The only thing wireless is my wifi connection.

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