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Comment by cjdoc29 | Hacker News Reader

> Latitude AI – a Ford subsidiary – is developing new automated driving technology with an initial focus on a hands-free, eyes-off driver assist system for next-generation Ford vehicles

Not that every company should follow Tesla's approach, but I think it would be great if other companies don't get too focused on their production systems being eyes-off, hands-off. I'd much prefer more people having access to these systems _sooner_ with monitoring to ensure that they're paying attention.

Tesla Autopilot, Hyundai's lane keep, etc. are such fantastic systems when you commute in high traffic areas and/or you have a long commute - even if you have to monitor the thing.

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People have been trying the driver-monitoring-as-a-shortcut approach for years now. It turns out that effective driver monitoring is extremely difficult, so the typical result is that you end up with the worst of both worlds: A system designed under the assumption that there's a human backup and a human that's not able to react quickly enough to prevent accidents.

It's not clear how to fix this, because the human can appear completely fine by all observable metrics even when they aren't, and vice versa to a lesser extent. This problem also gets worse the better your autonomous performance is.

That's why virtually every safety expert in the field is fairly critical of these sorts of systems.

You missed another quality of the worst world: driver monitoring that disengages even for a perfectly attentive driver. That’s about where Tesla is now.

Hyundai’s lane keep is so bad that I don’t trust it at all. In the three times I’ve tried to use it, it started to veer off the road suddenly and in strange ways on even the slightest curve. It should be recalled and disabled.

Hyundai has sold cars with multiple different systems in recent years (HDA2 is better than HDA1).

HDA1 is more robust Lane Keep Assist that takes into account mapped highway curves and adjusts speed and steering accordingly. The car might as well be on rails.

I haven’t had issues with vanilla LKA on a non-HDA mapped road other than expected problems where lane markings or shoulders are unclear.

Perhaps grandparent poster has a misaligned camera on their vehicle.

No problem with it on ioniq 5. The equivalent on the Kia was disastrous implementation. The one on Toyota is simple but robust as well

Nissan's ProPILOT Assist has been pretty trustworthy for me.

Yes, another anecdote to add to this thread of anecdotes is that my HI5 with HDA2 is stellar. I do hours at a time on highways in CA without a disengage.

Does it follow the car in front's speed on the highway while keeping you in the lane?

I would absolutely love a car that could do that well while I still paid attention while listening to podcasts/audiobooks.

I haven't tried any newish midtier cars, only been in a friends Tesla which is beyond my needs.

These niche applications are 100% what car companies should have focused on from the beginning rather than robotaxis.

My Jetta GLI can do this. ACC is good, if there’s a hard stop it will beep at me to brake, or brake itself hard later. The lane centering worked great in WA (with a tweak to the options to enable stronger centering) and works pretty good in CA (lane lines aren’t always as clear). Basically I only have to give a very light touch on the steering wheel, the car mostly just follows the road.

The system overall is not perfect but it’s great in stop and go and pretty good in regular traffic.

My single test drive with a Civic was similar but I didn’t test out the ADAS so much (and they wanted too much for it).

Recent Toyotas like a Corolla can do this.

Yep you can rent any modern Corolla and test the feature out. Most rental cars have this

Yes for the most part. It’s good enough to say look around and enjoy the view off a bridge or check a text message but not enough to write a long text or read an article

> The one on Toyota is simple but robust as well

This sounds like everything Toyota does.

A lot of new cars can do this. Rivian, etc.

Lane keep is not the same as lane centering.

I have a 2020 Palisade with lane centering. It works incredibly well. I've driven through Chicago highways with only management for lane changes. I literally will not buy a car without lane centering after having this car.

> Lane keep is not the same as lane centering

These are God awful naming schemes, completely misleading for the common consumer and bizantine in naming. Near purposefully misleading

I think it was a bit of organic confusion. The challenge is they all do very, very similar things. It's just to what degree.

It does seem they starting to standardize the naming.

Summary of the 3 different types (LKA, LCA, and LDW), and what each manufacturer called them last year:

- https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/lane-departure-wa...

The US NHTSA specifies the names here:

- L*A: https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/driver-assistance-technologi...

- LDW: https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/driver-assistance-technologi...

W = Warning, A = Assist

(Curious what names are used outside the US)

I'd be happy if they'd just make a drop-in replacement EV for my existing ICE options. I don't need it to be a robot. I just want it to not use gasoline. Unfortunately, manufactures seem to think it has to be all or nothing.

The gm bolt is what you want.

Except it's a GM

You can't have you basic car that is in-expensive and just a car without buying it from a boring, in-expensive automobile maker. They are the ones who make that kind of vehicle. They are one and the same.

What's the 'basic car' that uses gas that you want in electronic form but still a basic car?

Sure I can. Just because I don't like GM doesn't mean I don't like other manufacturers. You're making a big assumption.

Some people don't like Ford cars because they are fixed or repaired daily.

Some people don't like GM for whatever generic meme saying.

Some people don't like Toyota/Honda/et al because they're not American made (to whatever truth there is/isn't to that).

Some people just have preferences. Those preferences do not equate to the meaning you are trying to infer.

I wasn't trying to criticize your choices. I was trying to figure out what brand makes the gas powered car you have that you would like to see translated into an electric form. I am guessing you have some other things that you like in a car, can you share your ideal car then?

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