Comment by jimt1234 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jimt1234 | Hacker News Reader

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This whole requirement to return to the office, when data shows that employees overwhelmingly don't want to - well, the whole story is super disingenuous. Not just from Amazon, but the entire labor market.

First, before the pandemic, employees kept asking for more flexibility - the ability to WFH a few days a week because of rough commutes or family/home situations. The response from management was, "Sorry, we can't function as a company unless employees are in the office. Productivity will nose-dive." Then, the pandemic happened and management's story changed, "That thing you've been asking for, WFH - you know, the thing we told you wasn't possible because it would destroy the company, well, now we need you to do it in order to save the company." People did it, started WFH, and guess what - the company didn't die, productivity actually increased (I've read this in a few articles; don't have citations). So now that the pandemic is basically behind us, the story from management has changed again: "So yeah, that thing you wanted to do, WFH, but we told you it wasn't possible, but then a crisis happened and we told you that you had to do it, and now that you've done it for nearly 3 years with no harm to the company - yeah, the crisis is over, so we need you to stop doing it because it's destroying the company." Wait, what? The thing that was gonna destroy the company turned out to save the company, and now it's destroying the company???

Remote makes upskilling, onboarding and knowledge transfer much less likely and harder. It also reduces social connectivity, making communication more reluctant and with more tonal misunderstandings. The lack of social connection also makes people much more likely to job hop (as they won't miss people).

WfH can increase productivity in the short term while also gradually killing the company.

>>Remote makes upskilling, onboarding and knowledge transfer much less likely and harder.

Remote works great for people who are individualistic and in general can make do without peer access and a social stack rank. For people who in general have low discipline score with regards to anything in life, Remote can be brutal on the long run.

I've seen a fair bit of people get obese, unhealthy and poorer in the remote era. The absolute worse thing that can happen to people with discipline issue is isolation. When no one's watching, and without the much needed feedback, these people easily shift to their default mode and struggle there.

All I see is bold claims like this made as fact without any supporting evidence.

Anyone who has ever worked in an office knows that this is not a black and white issue. There are times where in person ad-hoc 5 minute conversations solve major issues, while at WFH that conversation would have never happened and it leads to days of work to solve the same issue. On the other hand there have been times where someone get stuck in traffic and gets to the office late and then is in a bullshit meeting where they have to pretend to pay attention instead of doing actual work. That person has wasted half a day for no good reason.

It took a while, but this same kind of 5-minute conversation started happening a few months into the pandemic though it was with an online meeting (now huddle), etc

Now it is second nature, and I've been doing it frequently across continents. For all intents and purposes, this never happened at the office before the pandemic.

Here's an example from my recent professional experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34847554

Just like the bold but unsupported productivity claims made by all those people who love to work in pyjamas...

> Remote makes upskilling, onboarding and knowledge transfer much less likely and harder

Uhh, why? Zoom calls still exist, you know? We can also communicate through writing and ask questions. What matters is the willingness to acquire this knowledge, not the method used

Well, to use an example from my professional life, when fresh grads joined after WfH it was MUCH harder to notice when they were stuck, in person in the office id just glance over or hear a noise of confusion. Also way easier to do real time adjustments to explanations that aren't hitting home when you can see their faces. Pointing at bits of screen or swapping keyboards also valuable.

Additionally, taking the time to take the junior down for some table football or a tea and a chat makes them MUCH more comfortable with you and they'll feel MUCH more able to come to you to ask for help or explanation or admit they don't understand something.

> hear a noise of confusion Can you elaborate on this noise?

Depended on person.

Some just confused mumbling, one made an ee sound, one gave a particular kind of sigh.

If your ability to manage employees is dependent on their subconscious, guttural audio cues, your management is fucked beyond belief.

Regular checkins, pair coding sessions, onboarding roadmaps, careful selection of initial projects, and fostering an open-door culture should all be a part of managing any new employee, whether in person or remote. And when done properly, there is no difference in the ability for employees to transfer knowledge or get onboarded between in office or remote.

Remote work allowed me to upskill easier because knowledge sharing occurred through digital mechanisms rather than be required through antequeted in office bullshit where management got to curate and limit to their heart's content. Social connectivity increased because rather than losing 10 hours a week to bullshit traffic commutes, I was able to work on myself and pursue things like cognitive behavior therapy and working on my home or life. My coworkers met as often as we desired to have happy hours, in person meetings for launches, or team building/charter creations. I stuck with a faang for over a year which was well beyond the typical in office attrition rate. To me, my anecdote is stronger than yours. To me, your anecode is wildy frustrating and a call to support these terrible corporations while they grasp back to reclaim the power they held pre 2019. Remote work was such a boon to these companies and I reject your factless notion that companies are dying to this. You want to slowly kill your company? Waste 10+ unpaid hours a week of your employees so you can exert asanine control over them.

Should’ve slacked off more during wfh in the pandemic.

Same, I worked my freaking butt off, didn't take a single day off during the past 2 years...

Same, had the two most productive years of my working life, worked my ass off, build them a system that now makes my salary 20-30 times. Now I am forced to come back in the office (and man did they fail that communication), don't see any real appreciation for the work I did, and I am like 20% as productive as prior.

Funny thing: I am still meeting expectations.

Move with your feet

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