"the debt is enormous"
Out of interest, how much of that is caused by the law degree being (as far as I understand it) a postgraduate degree in the US? Here in the UK you can just go straight to law school if you want without a first degree.
Out of interest, how much of that is caused by the law degree being (as far as I understand it) a postgraduate degree in the US? Here in the UK you can just go straight to law school if you want without a first degree.
At face value, the sticker price of grad school will always be more expensive, however, UF[1], UNC Chapel Hill[2], UT Austin[3], etc. are just a few reputable public universities with relatively affordable law programs, in particular, for in-state residents with enough grit to skip on-campus housing.
> Here in the UK you can just go straight to law school if you want without a first degree.
Hasn't been a thing in the US for decades[4].
[1] https://www.law.ufl.edu/admissions/costs-and-financial-aid
[2] https://law.unc.edu/admissions/financing-your-legal-educatio...
[3] https://law.utexas.edu/admissions/tuition-fees-and-expenses/
Why? Just seems like a barrier to entry to me for no good reason?
The ABA considered the appropriateness in 1964 without a dissenting vote and raised the standard in 1965[1]:
WHEREAS, There is a lack of uniformity among the law schools approved
by The American Bar Association as to the name of the first degree in law
awarded to successful applicants; and
WHEREAS, Confusion has arisen in the minds of the public as to the dif-
ference, if any, between the Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.) degree and the Juris
Doctor (J.D.) degree; and
WHEREAS, Both of these degrees normally signify a first professional de-
gree in law; and
WHEREAS, Graduation from an approved law school requires the successful
completion of a course of study substantially above and beyond that re-
quired for the bachelor's degree in the Arts or Sciences: and
WHEREAS, The course of study in an approved law school is comparable to
or more demanding than other professional courses of study in which the
professional doctor's degree is awarded; and
WHEREAS, It is deemed to be in the best interest of the public and of the
legal profession that this confusion in terminology be eliminated and that
the high standards of professional training and the competency of graduates
of approved law schools be recognized by a uniform practice with respect to
the title of the first degree in law.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED THAT: The Section of Legal Edu-
cation and Admissions to the Bar of The American Bar Association recom-
mends for all approved law schools favorable consideration of the con-
ferring of the degree of Juris Doctor (J.D.) by such schools on those students
who successfully complete the program leading to the first professional de-
gree in law.
Seeing a trend here?
While there are respectable salaries among the others, there are also a lot of lawyers doing real estate law in shopping malls that are just getting by.
What I see among friends with liberal arts degrees from Ivies and adjacent is that, while a few were probably already destined to be lawyers like three previous generations of their family, for most it's something they sort of fell into because they graduated with a classics major and now what? Many never even ended up practicing law--at least not for long.
There are low-cost law schools in the US. What you'll find, however, is that big-name law firms, Supreme Court clerkships, and other prestigious (and well-compensated) opportunities tend not to hire from them.
If you're looking to go into private practice or are targeting a less-ambitious role, or get lucky with a roll of the dice / spin of the wheel, they might work out fine.
Searching for "low cost law school" will come up with various listings. The top options on this list appear to run about 1/20th the cost of Harvard (I'm presuming that the tuition figure is for a full three-year programme, not on a per-year basis, the text makes this ... less than clear).
<https://affordableschools.net/the-10-most-affordable-law-sch...>
"1/20th the cost of Harvard" is in the ballpark of what a super affordable undergraduate program at a US public university goes for.
To be sure, your cite lists annual cost of tuition as clarified in Methodology section language.
Their "average program cost" metric is also pretty meaningless; you either pay in-state or out-of-state rates---not some arbitrary arithmetic mean---so ~3x for a rough lower bound of what tuition alone will run you, and that assumes the unlikely scenario of no tuition increases during subsequent years of study.
There's also the mention that law school is not necessarily required to join the bar, as addressed in the FAQ "Do You Have to go to Law School in Order to Become a Lawyer?":
To begin, 99 percent of lawyers who earn their license will have completed a law school program. This is for a very good reason: there are only four states in the United States that enable potential lawyers to sit for the bar exam without having completed law school. Those states are California, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington. In these states, less than one-quarter of the professionals without a law degree passed the bar exam and won the right to practice law. In fact, all four states are in the top 20 hardest bar exams, with California leading the pack at a pass rate of 54.3 percent.
Arguably three of those are nontrivial states for the practice of law.
Point remains however that $300k tuition is not strictly required to join the bar in the US, though it may offer a substantial selection advantage for prime opportunities.
NB Given the multiple legal systems in the UK there will be a lot of variations - e.g. to become an advocate here in Scotland (our equivalent of barristers) I think you could do that in 4 years: 2 year LLB, 1 year training in a law firm and then one year devilling (where you are an Advocate's Devil!).
Edit: Might be out of date - its a while since my wife did her 2 year LLB and then qualified and became an advocate.
3 year (or more) undergrad, plus 5 years becoming a lawyer.
Or, in Scotland, typically 4 years undergrad (it can be 3y), plus 4 years.
Or the 7 years the parent comment said.
Edit: Relatively few people (I think) do a first degree and then immediately go to law school - most people I knew who did that were changing to law after some other career and had a degree in something unrelated.