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Comment by lr4444lr | Hacker News Reader

I've gotta ask: is this really such a big problem in other countries? If not, are they starting school later? How are the successful ones dealing with it if not that way?

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The scientific consensus is that children need more sleep than theyre getting, and that waking up later is healthier. I assume this problem is the same in most parts of the world.

Can solve that by going to bed earlier too, but I doubt my teenager self would have listened to that.

Its more than just rebelliousness. Teens' circadian rhythms are naturally shifted towards falling asleep later in the evening and waking up later in the morning.

The cicadian rhytm doesn't actually know what the clock on your wall says, only when you eat and get daylight. A late cicadian rhytm is functionally equivalent with poor sleep hyhiene.

And when other people are active. It seems to be fairly common that night owls need an hour or two of their own time after most other people have gone to sleep, or at least have stopped bothering them.

Why not going to sleep earlier?

in the article: „And around puberty, their circadian clocks shift by a couple of hours, meaning they get tired later at night than before and wake up later in the morning than they used to. This shift reverses at adulthood.“ I agree with you somewhat that there is some personal responsibility required here, but I disagree that the answer here is so simple as going to sleep earlier.

Did the article cite the source for this and maybe I missed it? It says a lot of things and "countless studies" but curiously doesn't list all of them.

user jobs_throwaway posted a link to a paper on this topic

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222804/#:~:text=Resear...

In the article, they link to this website.

https://www.nationwidechildrens.org/specialties/sleep-disord...

>I agree with you somewhat that there is some personal responsibility required here, but I disagree that the answer here is so simple as going to sleep earlier.

I think this is where I'm at. I know its entirely possible to sleep earlier with lifestyle changes. I spent a summer at my grandparents with no wifi, tech etc and going outside to play, I was so bored but damn if that wasn't the best sleep I ever had in my life, lol... and early too, never more than 10 PM.

I'm just worried if we start later and later, it could keep creeping up until you have no reasonable time left to start later. I suppose experimenting with it couldn't hurt though.

Because teens have a natural tendency to fall asleep later: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222804/#:~:text=Resear...

Sure, it is possible to have them go to bed earlier, but you're fighting biology

We are already fighting biology the whole time by waking up early. Why can't we fight biology for a week until the body adjusts?

You can just ask Google for the typical high school (noting that the term for such schooling can drift) hours in another country. I chose Spain, and it says 9-5 with a 2 hour break for lunch in the middle. Some of the sources say 8:30. Nothing says earlier than that. This article, in contrast, says it required this argument to even get some schools here to compromise on 8:30, and that 9 was the recommendation.

Spain has an absurd timezone though

Spain is just an hour off compared to the sun, comparing to countries close like UK (same longitude, 1 hr time diff)

All the high schools I know of in the UK start at 9am. Never heard of any starting earlier, though private schools might be different.

My teenage son gets out of bed at 7:50, then bikes to school, which starts at 8:25, I think. I got out of bed a bit earlier when I was a kid because I had to bike 10 km to school which started at 8:25.

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