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Comment by gpvos | Hacker News Reader

Saving you a click: https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...

And this is the Lancet article summarising the research: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2...

The proportion of cancers attributable to alcohol is 4.1% of all cases, from [1]. Of that, the ‘Light to Moderate’ alcohol category (<=1.5L of wine per week or <=3.5L of beer per week) had 13.3% of cases for alcohol-attributable cancers and 2.3% of alcohol-related cancer cases.

1. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2...

That statement/summary was published after another large scale study was published in the same journal. IIRC that Lancet study is also kind of complex in that the harms are different with age. So before 40 years or so, the risk of alcohol is due to things like car accidents, falls, fights, etc, and after age 40 it's things like cancer etc.

I think they even see the protective effect of light drinking on things like cardio outcomes in younger individuals, it's just outweighed by accidents etc.

Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though because this is based on recent memory of from reading it before.

But if so, I think it changes the nature of the message a bit — although it's literally true there is no safe level of alcohol consumption in a population mortality risk sense, what that means is sort of complex and age-dependent, and might be something you can counteract, or might not.

Gee, how did two bottles of wine / 7 pints of beer a week get categorised as light? For me light would be one or two beers a week max.

Conventional wisdom used to be that a glass of wine or a beer everyday was healthy.

Even if you're drinking a beer every day, it probably doesn't need to be a whole pint. Most beer bottles / cans are 330ml or close to that.

A small glass of wine is also definitely less than the 200ml you'd need to get anywhere near 1.5 liters a week.

heard that for wine, never heard that for beer

Lancet's British

Brit here, upvoted for the giggle, but behind that I must admit we brits arguably have a serious (as in not at all funny) drug problem and that drug is alcohol.

If it ain't broke

I personally knew someone who drank himself to death, literally. I've heard from reliable sources of quite a few others who did the same, so I reckon it's broke.

Even if you ignore those more extreme cases, alcohol is also a contributor to the obesity epidemic in Western countries.

And diabetes, liver damage, mental health problems caused by brain damage from alcohol and etc.

I'm very much open to complete drug legalisation but when I see the stupidity with which we treat the drug ethanol it makes me wonder.

Yeah calling 1.5L/w 'light moderate' it's a stretch

But anyway, I always take such research with a grain of salt (or maybe with a glass of wine) because alcohol consumption has personal relationship benefits

Also not discounting the possibility that it's another "fat is bad" craze

Then again it's equivalent of 3.5 liters of beer per week. And you don't see people who drink one beer after work and at most two on weekend calling themselves heavy drinkers.

I have always given the research credit that it may just be highly counter intuitive but it has always seemed rather obvious that drinking poison is not part of optimal longevity.

The least shocking thing is for new research to come out claiming no amount of poison is good for you.

I quite enjoy drinking a few times a year but pushing 50 there is nothing that makes me feel as bad as even a few beers the night before compared to getting up and going for my morning 60 min walk without.

Calling it "poison" is not an honest description of it

That "poison" is present in fruits, and there is even evidence that we have evolved to eat fermented foods, containing said substance (which doesn't get metabolized in the best way, sure, but not in the worse way neither).

UV rays are also "poison" and also essential to normal life. Oxygen is literally toxic to several life forms on earth.

Other "poisons" present in food are cyanide for example. Vitamin A is also very damaging at high quantities.

2 bottles of wine per week is already quite a bit. If you are a couple, you pop a bottle more than every second day.

What matters is obviously per person... So "if you are a couple" is completely irrelevant.

Terms like 'light', 'moderate' or 'heavy' drinking are relative and must be taken in context.

For instance, historically it has been customary in many countries to drink wine with every meal. So 2 bottles per week is indeed moderate as it's about 1-2 glasses per meal. Likewise, 3.5l a beer per week is one beer at dinner, which is considered quite moderate, indeed.

Basically, if your drinking is moderate during meals only and no hard liquor this is considerate 'moderate' to normal in traditional terms.

For the context, I am French, living in Germany. As a tradition (but maybe I am old) you never drink wine alone. This is why my remark "as couple" because it is the minimal number of people you need to drink. But again, this is my education, so very personal.

3.5liter beer per week is just one beer per day which a lot of people consider completely benign.

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