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Comment by creata | Hacker News Reader

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creata·

> JS itself is not sound, so TS can never be.

What?

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The type system is not sound… that is there are things which the type checker cannot prove.

Not that the languages themselves are unsound.

1. That's a horrible description of unsoundness; you're making it sound like incompleteness!

2. What I meant to ask was: what does satvikpendem mean by "JS is unsound"? It's a dynamically typed language, so they can't be talking about soundness in the type system...

I did a bit of a writeup on the gaps in soundness for TypeScript in the docs, https://www.typescriptlang.org/play?strictFunctionTypes=fals...

I should clarify, the JS type system is unsound, and because JS is valid TS, TS is by extension also unsound. Not sure why you'd think a dynamically typed language cannot be unsound, it still has types, they're just not static.

Define soundness. Here's something close to the definitions that I've seen:

> The central result we wish to have for a given type-system is called soundness. It says this. Suppose we are given an expression (or program) e. We type-check it and conclude that its type is t. When we run e, let us say we obtain the value v. Then v will also have type t. - https://papl.cs.brown.edu/2014/safety-soundness.html

This only makes sense in the context of static types afaict, because you do not "typecheck an expression" in a dynamically typed language.

Types can be checked at runtime too, not just compile time. A language is sound if all types, even at runtime, are what they say they are. Zod for TypeScript is one example of checking this at runtime, although it's not fully safe either.

Soundness is not decidability. The reason TS is unsound is not directly because it's undecidable, as any Turing complete system is undecidable, and the TS type system is Turing complete.

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