Comment by exclusiv | Hacker News Reader

Comment by exclusiv | Hacker News Reader

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> In the 80s, Jordan was out in the first round

He joined a horrendous team when he was drafted.

And your statement is just wrong:

89-90 - Lost E. Conf. Finals

88-89 - Lost E. Conf. Finals

87-88 - Lost E. Conf. Semis

Then we know what happened after that.

> 80s and prior it was a team game and you had to play great as a team to win

Have you watched the Spurs or Warriors win multiple championships in recent times? It's not like team ball (more like UCLA teams) vanished, it's just rarely the way to win in the NBA.

Also, Pistons played as a team, and then Jordan took over and ended that era.

Some teams win playing team ball. Some teams win with a few all time greats taking over. That's always been the case.

Just because you had more passing and slower scoring, doesn't mean those were "real competition" or better teams.

Jordan was the leader of the best team of all time. The 95-96 Bulls. Any talk about "team game" in 80s and before doesn't change that.

I also don't think many give the Bulls teams credit as playing as a team. Jordan was dominant but you won't find many teams EVER that played defense as a team any better than those Bulls teams. And even on offense, everyone clearly understood their role (Pippen, Kukoc, Paxson, Kerr, Kukoc). That's 100% team ball, it just doesn't look like a John Wooden UCLA team or Showtime Lakers.

You can play team ball without passing the ball around 20 times each play before shooting. And team ball doesn't mean every starter has to average 10-20 pts.

Ok, so Jordan got lucky a couple times to get out of the first round. Also 1990 is not the 80's. He was pretty happy to hit that shot against Cleveland in the first round though, which shows how much of a struggle it was to get out of the first round.

> He joined a horrendous team when he was drafted.

So did Isiah Thomas. But Isiah Thomas won a championship in the 80's. Jordan was not someone Isiah worried about, his competition was Magic and Bird. Isiah also beat North Carolina in college in his sophomore year to win the NCAA (against Worthy and Perkins, Jordan wasn't on that team)

> Also, Pistons played as a team, and then Jordan took over and ended that era.

Actually the expansion of the NBA ended that era, because the Pistons were not able to keep Mahorn. If they kept that team together, Bulls don't win in 1991. If Worthy is healthy in 1991, Bulls don't win either. If Michael Cooper stayed with the Lakers that year, Bulls definitely don't win in 1991.

> Jordan was the leader of the best team of all time. The 95-96 Bulls. Any talk about "team game" in 80s and before doesn't change that.

Every team that won in the early 80's would have beat the 95-96 Bulls EASILY. This includes the 76ers. Magic won it in his first year in the league. Bird won it in his second year. Andrew Toney is one of the most underrated players ever. Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.

> Actually the expansion of the NBA ended that era, because the Pistons were not able to keep Mahorn. If they kept that team together, Bulls don't win in 1991.

Mahorn. An all defensive second team selection. One time. 6.9 ppg and 6 rebounds. I'm sure the best team ever would have been scared of him.

The Bulls SWEPT the Pistons in 90-91! Back to back champs just completely embarrassed. Laughable you think Mahorn would have changed anything!

> Jordan was not someone Isiah worried about, his competition was Magic and Bird.

Yes because until Scottie Pippen came along the Pistons, Celtics and Lakers had clearly better teams lol. You are trying to insinuate something that isn't there.

> Every team that won in the early 80's would have beat the 95-96 Bulls EASILY.

That's laughable and the pros that actually played would not back up your claim.

We're talking about THREE 7+ year first team all defensive players and the ability to lock down the paint and perimeter.

Pick any team. They are not better offensively and defensively complete as Jordan/Pippen/Rodman.

> Magic won it in his first year in the league. Bird won it in his second year. Andrew Toney is one of the most underrated players ever. Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.

Again - look at what teams AND organizations they joined. Your statement has no merit. The Jordan led Bulls dominated the league in ways that none of the teams you mentioned did.

Both Bird and Magic have less championships. And also - almost NOBODY puts them ahead of Jordan as best player ever.

You can put several Lakers over Magic for best Laker. And Bill Russell over Bird. Your favorites aren't on the same level as Jordan.

> Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.

More like the Bulls added a missing piece in Scottie Pippen. How many all stars did Bird and Magic have when they won?

In 1987 as one example, Celtics had 3. Lakers had 3. Bulls just 1.

They started winning because they had the best player ever and the organization added weapons. The Bulls were trash until after Jordan was drafted.

95-96 team is the best and most complete team ever assembled. You can disagree because it's your opinion. But collective opinion... it's widely known they are the best.

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