Lebron's spent most of his career not even being the best player in the league. He's not even the most significant player of his own era. That'd be Steph Curry. And he utterly choked away huge moments when he had a talent advantage. He hasn't been a top 5 player in years because he hasn't played defense full time since 2015.
He passes neither the eyeball test nor the accolade test. He just fails to measure up.
Typical Lebron hater. Steph isn't even in the same conversation as Lebron, he had 2 magical years but even someone like KD was way more significant during that era. You can be a Golden State stan all you want but this is just silly.
>He passes neither the eyeball test nor the accolade test. He just fails to measure up.
All time points leader, 4th all time in assists, 4 rings, 4 Finals MVPs, 4 League MVPs, a scoring title, an assist title, and HES STILL NOT DONE. Idk if you ever actually watched NBA games since Lebron went Pro or what but he was clearly the most dominant player in the league for over a decade. 8 finals in a row. You sir are on drugs.
Hard disagree. Have you played pickup basketball before and after Steph? I'm not even saying this is a good thing, but Steph Curry has quite clearly changed the way basketball is played and he made people want to go out and play the game. KD is of course an exceptional player, but how many people model their game after him or try to play like him?
Steph Curry is also pretty clearly the most skilled player in basketball history. The only other player who even comes close is Kyrie Irving. Personally, I appreciate this as much as LeBron and KD's ability to exploit their significant physical advantages (though both are also obviously great basketball minds too). Also, I don't say this as a conspiracist, but how the game is officiated matters too. Would the Cavs have won in 2016 if they weren't given tremendous liberty to manhandle Curry off the ball?
Having said all that, I think it's pretty easy to make a case for LeBron. He and Steph are the two most significant players of their generation. It's hard to argue against LeBron's overall body of work but there is a transcendent magic to Steph's game that sways me. Call it 1a and 1b. But I respect the case for LeBron.
And on avg, its hard to argue that Lebron has not had the better team. Lebron moved from one team to another always engineering situations to get the best possible team mates. Lebron has played with more high level team mates then basically anybody in NBA history (outside of maybe Kyrie).
Everybody that knows anything about Basketball stats would disagree.
Plus, Curry has won 2 titles without KD, and in neither of those runs did he have a Top player with him, like Lebron had with AD and Wade.
For instance, some might count losing in the playoffs more times than another player against a GOAT candidate. However, others might use those same playoff losses as a positive for the GOAT candidate since the overall team was bad and they wouldn't have made the playoffs without them.
begun, the GOAT wars have
Can he be considered the goat if lost in the first round 3 times?
Twice to Larry Bird, Surely Jordan can't be the goat if he lost to Bird 2x in the very first round and not the finals?
Surely you must see how flawed your logic is here?
Well then you'll certainly agree that Bill Russell is the undisputed goat if that is your criteria.
I'm also tired of the "wants it more" and "works the hardest" conversations. Somewhere out there is a dude who is working just as hard, but he's 5'6", has little fast twitch, and small hands. No matter how much he wants it, he'll never be an NBA all star.
That also runs into my other theory of whoever was #1 when the mid 80's to early 90's rolled around stays at #1 due to branding becoming "modern".
Skateboarding? Tony Hawk; Football video game: Madden.
After that period of time, the brands stopped moving over for new things coming up.