Perhaps this is a sign you should recalibrate your assessment criteria
I play a lot of ball and if we pretended I had nba level talent I would love to play with LBJ and hate playing with Jordan.
That makes zero sense. Jordan got everyone to buy into his obsessiveness and fully commit, getting TWO 3 peats. And it would have easily been 8 in a row if he didn't take time away after his dad was murdered.
I'm taking 3 Lakers over Lebron (Kareem, Magic, Kobe) if I'm building my team. And they are still after Jordan.
Lebron doesn't have that Jordan or Kobe mentality. He's also been in an era where he just bulldozes and travels on most plays. Exceptional athlete and player. But he's not the leader or competitor that Jordan was. Objectively based on his career - he just isn't.
Can you recall the Paxson, Kukoc and Kerr moments for Lebron? They don't exist.
The fact that you would hate playing with Jordan is what his teammates said too. Yet they wouldn't have traded it for anything and he lead them to 2 3 peats.
He made it hell for them and challenged them like they never would. And they stepped up when he called their number. There was no confusion on the role of every player.
Paxson, complete role player - “The stories are legendary about him on the practice floor,” Paxson said. “There was something unique about what was inside of him. The challenge was always there for him, and that’s a unique trait that you don’t see in athletes too often. The great ones seem to have it.”
Jordan might be the best 1-on-5 basketball player, but in the 80s and prior it was a team game and you had to play great as a team to win. In the 80s, Jordan was out in the first round.
He joined a horrendous team when he was drafted.
And your statement is just wrong:
89-90 - Lost E. Conf. Finals
88-89 - Lost E. Conf. Finals
87-88 - Lost E. Conf. Semis
Then we know what happened after that.
> 80s and prior it was a team game and you had to play great as a team to win
Have you watched the Spurs or Warriors win multiple championships in recent times? It's not like team ball (more like UCLA teams) vanished, it's just rarely the way to win in the NBA.
Also, Pistons played as a team, and then Jordan took over and ended that era.
Some teams win playing team ball. Some teams win with a few all time greats taking over. That's always been the case.
Just because you had more passing and slower scoring, doesn't mean those were "real competition" or better teams.
Jordan was the leader of the best team of all time. The 95-96 Bulls. Any talk about "team game" in 80s and before doesn't change that.
I also don't think many give the Bulls teams credit as playing as a team. Jordan was dominant but you won't find many teams EVER that played defense as a team any better than those Bulls teams. And even on offense, everyone clearly understood their role (Pippen, Kukoc, Paxson, Kerr, Kukoc). That's 100% team ball, it just doesn't look like a John Wooden UCLA team or Showtime Lakers.
You can play team ball without passing the ball around 20 times each play before shooting. And team ball doesn't mean every starter has to average 10-20 pts.
> He joined a horrendous team when he was drafted.
So did Isiah Thomas. But Isiah Thomas won a championship in the 80's. Jordan was not someone Isiah worried about, his competition was Magic and Bird. Isiah also beat North Carolina in college in his sophomore year to win the NCAA (against Worthy and Perkins, Jordan wasn't on that team)
> Also, Pistons played as a team, and then Jordan took over and ended that era.
Actually the expansion of the NBA ended that era, because the Pistons were not able to keep Mahorn. If they kept that team together, Bulls don't win in 1991. If Worthy is healthy in 1991, Bulls don't win either. If Michael Cooper stayed with the Lakers that year, Bulls definitely don't win in 1991.
> Jordan was the leader of the best team of all time. The 95-96 Bulls. Any talk about "team game" in 80s and before doesn't change that.
Every team that won in the early 80's would have beat the 95-96 Bulls EASILY. This includes the 76ers. Magic won it in his first year in the league. Bird won it in his second year. Andrew Toney is one of the most underrated players ever. Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.
Mahorn. An all defensive second team selection. One time. 6.9 ppg and 6 rebounds. I'm sure the best team ever would have been scared of him.
The Bulls SWEPT the Pistons in 90-91! Back to back champs just completely embarrassed. Laughable you think Mahorn would have changed anything!
> Jordan was not someone Isiah worried about, his competition was Magic and Bird.
Yes because until Scottie Pippen came along the Pistons, Celtics and Lakers had clearly better teams lol. You are trying to insinuate something that isn't there.
> Every team that won in the early 80's would have beat the 95-96 Bulls EASILY.
That's laughable and the pros that actually played would not back up your claim.
We're talking about THREE 7+ year first team all defensive players and the ability to lock down the paint and perimeter.
Pick any team. They are not better offensively and defensively complete as Jordan/Pippen/Rodman.
> Magic won it in his first year in the league. Bird won it in his second year. Andrew Toney is one of the most underrated players ever. Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.
Again - look at what teams AND organizations they joined. Your statement has no merit. The Jordan led Bulls dominated the league in ways that none of the teams you mentioned did.
Both Bird and Magic have less championships. And also - almost NOBODY puts them ahead of Jordan as best player ever.
You can put several Lakers over Magic for best Laker. And Bill Russell over Bird. Your favorites aren't on the same level as Jordan.
> Jordan didn't win until everybody else got old.
More like the Bulls added a missing piece in Scottie Pippen. How many all stars did Bird and Magic have when they won?
In 1987 as one example, Celtics had 3. Lakers had 3. Bulls just 1.
They started winning because they had the best player ever and the organization added weapons. The Bulls were trash until after Jordan was drafted.
95-96 team is the best and most complete team ever assembled. You can disagree because it's your opinion. But collective opinion... it's widely known they are the best.
I agree that JBJ doesn't have Jordan's competitiveness (or even Bryant's) but he's a smarter player. The proof to me is that at age 38 (!) he's still arguably a top 10 player. As his body slows down his intelligence is able to compensate. At the end of their careers neither Bryant or Jordan were anywhere near a top 10 player as their athleticism begin to wane.
Another point: Jordan's career assist average was 5.3, LBJ's is 7.3. He is able to make better use of his teammates than Jordan.
Jordan bulldozed and traveled plenty in his day. He also had the advantage of the illegal defense rules (countered somewhat by the revised hand-check rules). It's difficult to compare players from different eras because they grew up learning different skill sets but Jordan would not have lifted the current flawed Lakers as much as James.
Total points, first 4 years in NBA (including playoffs):
LeBron: 9339
Doncic: 7873
LeBron was at another level of athleticism when he came out of HS. Him losing a step did not have as large of an impact. He basically has been able to have a “prime” that has lasted his whole career.
Did you watch LeBron when he was younger, or just looking at stats?