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Comment by mattw2121 | Hacker News Reader

Workers aren't done with full-time work. Workers answered a survey saying that they are disillusioned with the idea of full-time work. In their idea of a perfect world, they would do freelance and not tie themselves to one employer. What would be really interesting is to follow up with those 109 that were actually laid off and see where they land. I'd wager 95% of them continue with full-time work, despite their answers on this survey.

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As someone whose hired people/done PT work/contract work and FT work these are things people want:

Health Care and Money.

I know many smart people who'd do non-full time work if they had healthcare provided. But, unless you're a FTE you're not getting that.

Also, the pay differences is pretty low. Why would I work as a Dev at "Random Contract Company" that is offering $65-75/hr when I could just get a FT job that pays $140-150k/yr and includes PTO and other perks?

If part time/contract paid as much of a difference as travel nurses for instance, you'd see a lot more contractors.

> But, unless you're a FTE you're not getting that.

I don't understand this prevailing notion that Health Care is some mythical thing that only employers can provide.

I contracted for a few years. I simply bought health insurance. It was "more expensive" because I didn't have an employer contributing to part of the costs, but it wasn't any more "expensive" than what I and my employer were paying for anyways.

Some employers almost completely subsidize it.

It is hard to give up a job that pays $140k, subsidizes health insurance, std and ltd and offers good PTO.

This could equal to a total compensation of $170k.

Also, larger companies can get a better deal on healthcare than a single person.

Correct. This is well known for employers that "fully loaded" cost is 20% to 40% higher than base salary.

My point is simply that health insurance does not require an employer. Individuals can purchase it on their own. Like anything, that purchase costs money.

>It was "more expensive" because I didn't have an employer contributing to part of the costs

So it was more expensive, full stop, no scare quotes. Anyone who has ever shopped for insurance on the open marketplace or saw how much they would have to pay for COBRA can tell you that it is extremely expensive to pay for it yourself. If someone else is covering your costs, then it costs less.

I use the scare quotes because people seem to think that employer provided healthcare is anything different than a cash subsidy.

You and me as individuals can purchase the exact same product that our employer can. Only difference is your employer won't be subsidizing part of it.

You paid more of your income than you were before: the very definition of “more expensive” in this context.

I didn't actually. I received an increase to move to that role. Even after contractor expenses, it was a raise.

If you pay X for something, and then have to start paying Y > X for the same thing, it's become more expensive for you. I don't see how this is debatable.

How many people were you providing healthcare for, and between them how many chronic conditions that could become life threatening during a short lapse in coverage?

> I know many smart people who'd do non-full time work if they had healthcare provided. But, unless you're a FTE you're not getting that.

Buying your own health insurance and setting your rates to be able to afford it is Freelancing 101.

It’s not some mysteriously difficult subject. Anyone can price out ACA marketplace plans online and build out a spreadsheet calculating their costs and taxes and necessary target rate in under 30 minutes. If you can’t calculate those basic numbers, you shouldn’t be thinking about freelancing.

> Also, the pay differences is pretty low. Why would I work as a Dev at "Random Contract Company" that is offering $65-75/hr when I could just get a FT job that pays $140-150k/yr and includes PTO and other perks?

Freelancing doesn’t really mean taking those terrible contract jobs you see on job sites. Successful freelancers will build a reputation and offer services to companies, naming their own price in the proposals.

1. FTE comes with far more insurance types and benefits then just health, at least mine does.

2. "Freelancing doesn’t really mean taking those terrible contract jobs you see on job sites. Successful freelancers will build a reputation and offer services to companies, naming their own price in the proposals."

-- This makes sense, after you have built that reputation. What people are worried about is that start when you have _zero_ reputation and they need to have income and healthcare for themselves and their families. How long can this take? Weeks, months, years?

You start out keeping your 40 hour full-time job and do freelance work in the evenings and weekends. After you reach a reasonable income level freelancing you drop the full-time job.

My biggest issue with freelance/contract was the internal pressure to take on jobs for pay that didn't fully match my technical or organizational interests. It wasnt always clear when the next catch would come if i turned away paid work. There was always a pipeline, but it was lumpy and often at the mercy of budgets, finance, vendor management, etc.

As an Employee, i put all my effort into finding an organization i love, and the work is a pleasure each day.

This is people idealizing things. In best of world, yeah, who wouldn't want to take units[1] of work at will. Have some available time? Put in a bid, do the task and be done. On the other hand, as one can see with Uber on the one hand and 1099s on the other, it's a mixed bag with lots of pros and cons. You manage your own time, but you take on more responsibility. I think, given the realities of life, people will, on balance, choose the stability an FTE position.

[1]this isn't always practical as many things are not inherently divisible into units of labor [pregnancy being the iconic example where you can't put 9 women to deliver in one month]

Software security and quality is already in a pretty sad state. If the software industry changes to resemble the gig economy we're going to be in trouble.

Software security has already been turned into gig work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug_bounty_program

Some people make a living off it. Most don't.

The other side of the field looks much greener when you just got laid off. FTE is a very stable type of employment compared to freelance. And considering that most got laid off from high profile tech companies they should have no issue finding work.

Kind of an interesting phenomena lately with all the press around the layoffs, I guess because they are happening in household name companies. It seems wired from my perspective to run to the media about this. If anything, complaining to the media will make you even less hirable because now the company is thinking in the back of it's head if you will badmouth them to the press if they have to lay you off.

I freelance and hire other freelancers. There is a meta-job in managing business, and more importantly, selling, which I think that many people with an average intelligence and EQ would be able to do and eventually make the same or more than their jobs.

But most people won't have the appetite for risk, or the will to spend about ~20% of their time selling (constantly) to make sure that the pipeline grows in volume and margin.

Add to that many people really don't like selling themselves.

I don’t think that’s a massive problem - you can get away without ultra-personalistic selling and focus the sales attention on your product/service and USPs. In my experience, what most people (myself included when I started) are horrified of is selling, period. Particularly cold outreach which you might not need in very specific contexts, but of which there will be a sizeable need in many others.

I agree. The allure of working from anywhere at any time is enticing, but not the reality for most. Everyone ultimately has a boss — whether an employer, manager, shareholder, client — and shifting to freelance doesn't change that. What does change is the responsibility for bringing in consistent work and the accountability for project deadlines, which can be a job on its own.

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