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Comment by prox | Hacker News Reader

Trust me, cars will be next for the subscription model. There will be resistance at first, but it seems the way we are heading.

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BMW starts selling heated seat subscriptions for $18 a month

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscription...

Toyota sells access to their remote start.

This should be illegal.

So does Acura/Honda. Used to be on the key fob, but now it’s through a phone app with a subscription. I thought it was ridiculous until I learned how it worked. Instead of being RF based, it works using Sirius XM satellite data pushes.

I’m not sure how to feel about it now. I think the satellite version is more secure, but does have a different cost structure.

(I only found this out when our account wouldn’t work for months. Then a few months ago there was a security issue with that system that reset our account.)

Secure, eh?

https://mobile.twitter.com/samwcyo/status/159779209717567488...

Tl;dr: They didn't actually bother to put security into the app

> We could execute commands on vehicles and fetch user information from the accounts by only knowing the victim's VIN number, something that was on the windshield.

Our products are turning into vending machines, with the iPhone as the best example.

I wonder how much their subscription for the blinkers costs.

Probably a lot, judging by the cost of BMW blinker fluid.

Conceptually I have less of an issue with it for cars. I think encouraging car-sharing, at least in urban environments, would be a good thing. Most cars spend the vast majority of the day either parked at home, or at work.

But I keep my last week's garbage in the car, why would I want to share somebody else's garbage ?

Taking a quick peek (at least where I live), There's not much garbage in ppl's cars

It's already here. BMW tried to charge a subscription for CarPlay.

There is at least one Indian manufacturer pushing subscriptions on some features on their high end models.

Thin end of the wedge.

Like...a lease?

Nope, more like “pay this to unlock the features x,y and z”

This is already being done by moet major brands these days. They can only withhold luxury features like heated seating for now, but who knows when they take away basic features such as radio, replace it with a Spotify app, and demand a special subscription to listen tk music in your car.

Want to drive without this awful music? 10$

I see ransomware coming to cars.

Why awful music when it could be ads?

"Please pull over and watch this message from our sponsors to continue your journey"

I was trying to look up a Tesla special case (where upgrading the infotainment unit removes the radio unless an additional $500 upgrade is purchased) and learned that several EV manufacturers have already removed AM radio because electric motors interfere with that frequency range.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/business/media/am-radio-c...

"Carmakers noted that drivers can still stream AM radio on apps and not all electric vehicles have dropped it."

Removing hardware features is fine by me. Selling hardware features that can't be used, and rent-seeking with them, is user-hostile.

People would 100% be jailbreaking this stuff.

Very few people. What percentage of iPhone users have their phones jailbroken? 0.0001%

Almost no one will do it - it's a lot of work, loss of warranty, loss of small conveniences.

I used to always jailbreak my iphone (mostly because I was one of the first owners and had been doing that since it was possible). The last time I did it, the apps were just too sketchy and wanted too much permissions. I didn't really see the value in it. Maybe things are better these days, but I haven't checked in the last 6-7 years.

> loss of warranty

In the U.S., this is not true. If Apple claims so, they are violating the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Can you refer to the specific section that prevents it?

I'm not an expert at legalese or have access to LexisNexis, but after a quick Google search, I think this is it:

> a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of “unauthorized” articles or service.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2018-title16-vol1/xm...

There is oddly little ECU/BSI/onboard computer hacking (beyond flashing a tune, mostly to change engine specific settings). Or maybe there is, but I never managed to find an active community that goes beyond ecu tunes. I guess it's due to how fragmented the hardware is (even if most auto manufacturers usually source the components and systems from the same vendors).

Or just physically cutting open the seat and bypassing the switch

Unless it has an AI, “you have violated the integrity of this vehicle, starting protocols have been disabled. Please contact your local representative.”

"drink a verification can to continue"

A microcontroller is probably enough, no need to throw in the big AI word.

Cars are too expensive to void the warranty. But I agree in spirit.

...and after a car accident you get all the blame and other legal consequences for having tampered with your car.

your warranty is now void

your resale value is now zero

your service options have been limited to third party workshops only

> loss of warranty

In the U.S., this is not true. If the manufacturer claims so, they are violating the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

You're telling me that I can go to the U.S. and purchase a car, perform unauthorised modifications to its systems and the manufacturer still has to honour the warranty? That sounds excellent!

As long as what you do doesn't cause the damage that you want them to repair under the warranty. They still have to honor the warranty for the unaffected systems.

The upper middle class will cheer is because they can afford it and they would rather see the poors on the bus than in a used car. Maybe the ones with a little bit more self awareness than average will feel dirty about it.

As someone who is upper middle class, I dispute this. It doesn't matter how much I make, I feel like I'm drowning in monthly subscription fees already. Nobody wants to pay a recurring fee for what should be a one-time payment.

Owning an ink jet printer is never a one time payment. If you are drowning in subscriptions, printing should be the least of your worries.

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