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Comment by throwaway81523 | Hacker News Reader

I play chess and also follow it as a professional sport. I suck at it but it's fun anyway, it costs nothing unless you play in money tournaments, costs very little unless you play in BIG money tournaments, and as far as I can tell it seems to offer everything that video games do in terms of skill challenge, social connection, and all of that. I'm sure these expensive video games have a reason to exist but I haven't figured out what it is.

I played D&D in high school when it consisted of a few (often xeroxed) rulebooks, some funny looking dice, some graph paper, and the players' own imaginations. The current version sounds awful by comparison.

Now get off my lawn.

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Videogames are expensive when you are young. It might be more expensive than chess, but it quickly becomes one of the cheapest hobbies of most adults. It's sure cheaper than going out drinking an extra night each week.

Fair enough about the cost, but the thing is, chess isn't under any company's control and it has history and traditions going back for centuries. There is a sense of grandeur when you move a pawn even as the lowliest patzer, that no amount of GPU-enhanced videogame graphics can replicate. You almost feel the blood of Lasker and Capablanca running through your veins.

One of my favorite movies is a biodoc about a Soviet-era player from Kazakhstan, on youtube (1st of 3 parts, around 15 minutes each: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Io7jbHsYs ). I can't imagine someone making a movie like that about a Warhammer player. But, that's just me.

There's plenty of reasons not to like abstract games.

Abstract games are highly, highly dependent on memorization and repetition. In lower tiers a Go or Chess player that's played more games or memorized more positions will handily beat a player who hasn't. The sheer hours needed to get to high level chess play, where memorization doesn't matter as much anymore, is insane. There's a reason most great chess players start out young.

Abstracts are also perfect information games. I like games that simulate aspects of real life, and anything with perfect information immediately breaks my immersion.

Exactly this. As an avid board game player this is one of the things that has always frustrated me about chess. Those that like to play have been playing for a long time and there is a steep learning curve. Even the parent was throwing off vernacular. This is not just intimidating to many newcomers but will likely put them off because it is difficult to see yourself make progress. On the other hand, most board games have luck elements in them and have a wide range of luck-skill balances. You'll find that how people are introduced to board games (and videogames) depends on what game they try first. If that game requires a high skill level (or worse, high skill and high dependence on opening actions, like Catan (unfortunately is a common "intro game")) then people tend to not like "board games" in a general sense. But once people are comfortable with the space and patterns (there's only so many concepts in gaming) then they are far more open to more complex rule sets and more skill based games. Chess and Go's killer problem is that it is difficult to get started. Ironically we're on a form of mostly programmers and this is analogous to the "Python before C++" argument, but with less benefits to the C++ side.

If you are new to chess you will probably be a bad player, but it is still fun. I've been at it for decades and I'm still a bad player. I don't mind. I don't memorize much of anything. It's more like math puzzles. I suppose if I studied the right way and had more chess ambition, I'd be stronger than I am, but I don't try to be competitive, so it's fine. It's easy for me to find opponents at about the same level and have enjoyable games. That made a good way to relax after a busy week of work or school, meet other nerds, etc. That was all I wanted from it. I had no dream of becoming a grandmaster or anything like that, so I was happy. YMMV.

Added: Look at some of the PogChamps tournaments on youtube. The players are youtube streamers who are chess beginners and they play horribly, but they are still a blast.

I prefer playing games with my friends in real life than with strangers over the internet. That’s the biggest reason I don’t play abstract strategy games much.

Chess is not a great shared game for a group of friends. You all need to be somewhat close in skill to each other (or else the outliers will get bored of playing chess with the group). That also means that you all need to progress at relatively similar rates.

The board games I like to play are thematic, introduce a bit of luck, and are engaging for players of all skill levels. They don’t allow for nearly the same level of mastery that chess does, but that’s exactly what makes them so fun to play as a group.

I've never played chess on the internet. I went to chess clubs, played in cafes, and that sort of thing. There were players of every level from beginner to master. I got to know several people there and became housemates with one for a while. I stay away from such things these days because of the pandemic, but maybe I'll get to take it up again someday.

Besides playing, watching chess videos is interesting too. I like the youtube PowerplayChess channel for updates on top level events and historical games. There are lots of other channels too.

I'm pretty sure thats still how most people engage with RPGs, at least, I'm fairly whippersnapping and that was my high school experience too.

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