Big Tech Layoffs Are Hitting Diversity and Inclusion Jobs Hard
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
The thing is DEI efforts oftentimes mask comical understanding of history and blindingly gross racism.
Personal anecdote: How do you deal with people who proudly wear "Antiracist" t-shirts, but will quickly tell you Asians are opportunity hoarders who must hate their kids because they focus too much on academics. Or how do you explain indentured servitude, wars and famine have been commonplace all through history.
The one that continually upsets me (as someone who grew up in a predominantly Hispanic community, is married to a Hispanic person, has Hispanic children, and speaks Spanish as a fluent second language and in the home) is the use of the term "LatinX" which has spread through the DEI community and now general HR. I, a white man, despite my involvement in Latin culture cannot push back against this offensive term, which is quite literally colonialistic with white people from other countries (mostly Americans) telling Latin PoC globally what the appropriate term is to self-identify with. I've attempted to do so, and it's gotten me in trouble, despite the truth and cultural basis of my arguments.
DEI would be questionable but not objectionable if it only pushed actual factual truth, but because it's mostly subjective ideological zealotry, it's incredibly objectionable, and actually racist, more racist than those who are in opposition to it, but seems to have been granted a monopoly on determining what is and isn't racist or unacceptable by the Western elites.
This is what happened in many colleges.
1. Certain job listings mandate adherence to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) principles.
2. Candidates with the strongest understanding of DEI typically come from privileged backgrounds, such as private K-12 schools and Ivy League universities, and tend to be white.
3. These applicants are able to "out-perform" other applicants in terms of DEI understanding.
4. As a result, the faculty continues to be predominantly white and wealthy.
5. Profit.
This, in fact, is one of the major difficulties with DEI. My identity has no bearing on the truth or falsity of my words, my observations, or my statements. It is simply the truth that "LatinX" does not work in the Spanish language, it's effectively unpronounceable, and it is directly targeting a language feature from the perspective of English speakers as applied to a another language, which means that in so many ways it is insulting, offensive, and colonialistic. It should not require one to identify as Hispanic or Latino to say this (or to be aware of it). It feels intentionally racist, because anyone who purports to be representing the ideal of helping this community should surely be aware of such basic things about Hispanic culture and the Spanish language.
Not to mention all the other classism issues that said natives face at the hands of non-native learners/speakers, including accent discrimination when the others literally only use English phonemes.
And I'm not part of that language's native speaker group, I just recognise they should probably be included in stuff said about it, and try to respect what native speakers say, even if it's not how English works.
He is also fair skinned, blonde and blue eyed - as is his family. He objectively looks "white". Why does it matter? Because in the current DEI world, he and his children can mark "Hispanic" or "Latino" on all forms (I may be wrong here on whether it is both).
His children will therefore benefit from many advantages granted by DEI benefactors. Lost in this crazy DEI calculus is that this is a wealthy family.
Your friend is one of those cases. I am not blaming him or his kids for utilizing the current situation to their advantage, and I don't feel particularly bad about someone getting a lucky hand and playing it well either. Good for him and his kids.
But on the flipside, imagine being an asian-american kid coming from a poor family. Not only you get disadvantaged by the financial situation in your household, you then get screwed over by the DEI initiatives on top of that. Too bad, kid, shoulda aligned with the "stereotypes" assigned to your group by DEI better and had well-earning and educated parents. And given how DEI policy supporters often use the "it is for the greater good as a society" argument, it feels doubly dirty and insulting to those individuals.
Even the factual outcomes and effects of such policies aside, officially assigning those "economic stereotypes" to various ethnic groups and treating individual people in those groups based on those "stereotypes" (derived from the aggregate data for that group) just feels icky.
Seriously, I would be surprised if there is not a broken spoken language.
English is completely messed up. I don't know how anyone learns it.
Why do you think they may have adopted it?
> The Spanish language is not broken and does not need to be fixed.
Latinx is an English word. English words are not necesarily gendered, and English linguistic culture has evolved away from gendered nouns.
"Latine" is better for English, though.
https://theconversation.com/stop-using-latinx-if-you-really-...
If LGBTQ+ people want to use the term Latinx to refer to themselves, that's fine. But they don't get to make that decision for the 98% who are fine with "Latino" or "Latina."
There is already an established way to make this term non-gendered, either drop the gender suffix entirely Latin, or make it explicit by using Latine. Both are which are existing words in Spanish with an established meaning. Rather than use this, activists in the US decided to demand 640 million people change their language to appease those who don't even understand their language.
IMO, genders on objects without a sex are just non sensical and a legacy product of Roman Latin evolution. A simple -e suffix could potentially fix this, but it's incredibly hard to change without a generational change, cause language and habits are sticky. However if you are triggered by a table being female gendered or a car being male gendered, maybe you are overthinking it.
When it comes to human related words, another potential approach is to always use the female form, because you refer to the word person (la persona) and not the particular gender of the individual in question. This applies to groups too, the rule in Spanish is that if a group has females and males, you should use the "male" plural form. Why not just use the female form and everyone is happy?
Just remark that this is a hot topic and conservative and older people usually oppose this aggressively and openly. New generations understand the arbitrary split of society in two based on the presence of a penis more intrinsically though.
> "Latinx organizations share hopes for Futuro Latino Fund"
> The grant is meant for nonprofits and organizations that help support Latinx communities.
> Garcia said Latinx people understanding their history is important for community development.
> "As Chicanos, as we grew up understanding that America, the United States of America, era nuestra casa, we became interested and connected to American history," he said.
> A lot of Latinos would love to be baseball,
That sounds pretty bigoted, so make a complaint to HR. Putting on a 49ers jersey doesn't make me a true fan.
The CEO said 'listen, we don't have the time or money for stuff like that right now. We're not profitable. Let's turn this ship around and we'll revisit.'
This gave me the sense that it's just seen as a frivolous expense to most companies, and pretty big respect to the CEO for admitting as much.
The problem with a lot of the DIE stuff that I've seen is that it is usually targeted at the ICs and first level managers, just like the ethics training, and the sexual harassment training.
Whereas that stuff is very rarely perpetrated by the rank and final, it's usually the execs that need the training. Why is DIE any different, after all if it was really important to the execs there would be easy ways to make it happen, shoving everyone in trainings seems like performative work.
Which makes perfect sense as these are the people who making hiring decisions and are in places to take bribes and blackmail others for sexual favors; the CEO of a large org isn't doing interviews for rank and file.
I don't think it was an accident that tech become one of the main industries pushing D&I over the last several years. Whatever your opinion is on D&I it's arguably not something a company would put significant investment or time into unless they had spare margin and cashflows.
This isn't a political comment, just an observation as someone who works for a company with a large D&I team, but I do hope this injects some sanity into what a reasonable emphasis on D&I looks like in the corporate structure, because I think a few tech companies have gone a little too far in recent years. The company I work for at the moment has ended up dividing the workforce by race by pushing "inclusive" policies so hard. Our corporate Yammer is worse than Twitter.
The layoffs happening across all tech companies (including the ones recording record profits and that have extremely large cash reserves) also strikes me as another way of depressing tech salaries.
Maybe this perspective doesn't hold much weight, because why then get rid of D&I?
Maybe because keeping the lights on is more important, or D&I has already done as much as it could do, if that was the ambition.
The issue is when times are good and companies are expanding it's hard to justify why you're suddenly cutting people who work in D&I roles. And you can't even freeze their hiring because even that looks bad when every other department is still growing their headcount 10% YoY.
But now for the first time in many years tech companies have an excuse to cut fat - so who are they going to cut? Well, it's not going to be the engineer who's been their for 10+ years who has built several essential tools and services. It's generally going to be teams who work on speculative innovation projects that are likely going nowhere and those from departments offering little value to the company such as D&I.
My opinion on the tech layoffs from the start has been that if you're a good engineer who's providing value, or is able to provide value elsewhere, it's unlikely you'll be impacted much. Even if you're let go.
Or it could simply be the standard "last in, first out" approach that most businesses take when hiring and firing going into an economic downturn.
The top post is someone who's upset because they believe an employee has intentionally moved all the books about feminism and race in the office library to the top shelf where they are out of sight. They also suspect the same person has likely moved a Piers Morgan book down to eye level.
After some angry words they finish their post by explaining they were only able to make this observation because they are an individual of above-average height, and apologise for this fact before ending their post with kisses.
For their next trick, objecting to clapping emojis in Slack.
I understand what this meant in the context of the article, but without context, this seems like a potentially dangerous statement.
As the reply above said, D&I isn't about "Don't fire minorities", it's about "If you fire 10% of your workforce, but they end up being 30% of the minorities in your workforce, question why there's a disconnect"
The idea being is the 10% actually where 10% of cuts need to happen, or is the 10% including some business unit that didn't have the right people hitting up the after work pub crawl with the founder, so no one one felt personally connected enough to have them stick.
-
And I feel like the kneejerk is to assume "oh well you're just assuming founders are discriminatory"... it really doesn't have to be a discriminatory thing, it's simple human nature.
It's hard to trust someone who thinks that they won't subconsciously lean away from firing people that they've spent more time with and happen to like. They should accept that camaraderie outside of the bounds of business can subtly affect affect business sense even if you are a fair person before you can consciously override that tendency.
Similarly even though they're not sexist, they're not a T-1000 and are subject to things like same-gender preferences that have been replicated time and time again: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2020.0186...
A large part of D&I is supposed to get people to embrace uncomfortable hidden biases without jumping to the least charitable cause: You don't have to be racist to get along better with people who are from your culture when that often means sharing interests, understanding each other better, etc. You don't have to be evil for that to end up affecting your decision making subconsciously.
Is it both legal and ethical to prioritise specific groups when hiring, with the aim to improve diversity?
Is it therefore both legal and ethical to use the same metrics when conducting layoffs?
Though this is not my field, it somehow seems more unfair in the latter case?
I apologize if I come off as ignorant...Im not sure how these things work in law. However, I can't think of any way that taking someone's personal attributes that they cannot help into consideration when laying others off would result in anything but resentment towards the company.
I'm sure this happens, but it's not been my experience working for healthy companies.
Been through a few attrition rounds myself. The process has always been, every single time: identify low performers, find reasons to fight for them to stay (do they have gifts the company isn't properly utilizing, etc.). Those at the bottom of the list need to be let go, essentially pruning unhealthy/unproductive branches from the tree trunk to keep the rest of the tree healthy.
> The process has always been, every single time: identify low performers, find reasons to fight for them to stay (do they have gifts the company isn't properly utilizing, etc.)
Strongly doubt this is done effectively in anything but smaller organizations. Imagine an organization the size of Google, doing this analysis effectively would involve consulting thousands if not 10s of thousands of managers, some of whom will be on the chopping block themselves. Organizations pretty much never want to telegraph these kinds of moves in advance, and looping that many people in 100% guarantees the entire process will be leaky as hell. Sure these organizations will play games with performance reviews to try to make some attempt at coming up with a more meaningful filter than a dice roll, but the accuracy is at best, questionable, and as we've seen in the recent layoffs a good performance review is a pretty weak form of protection.
Your second sentence even provides a perfect scenario around exactly the kind of randomness that comes into play
> essentially pruning unhealthy/unproductive branches from the tree trunk to keep the rest of the tree healthy.
High performer but working on a product the company has decided to de-prioritize? Bye.
Larger organizations are just groups of smaller organizations. Some perform better than others. I work for a $4B corp, the small divisions I interact with generally get it right. Sure, you'll get an outlier from time to time that's mismanaged (and addressed once that's become clear). But it's usually not a systemic problem.
> Organizations pretty much never want to telegraph these kinds of moves in advance
Organizations don't "play around" with hiring and firing. Believe it or not, the executive team actually does care about employee morale. When you hire you need a plan to keep them, as it impacts employee morale and performance if you hire/fire on a whim. If a company treats it's people badly, it's a sign of a poorly run company, which usually doesn't end well. If you think this is your company, I recommend leaving and finding someplace better. They're out there.
Typically companies are "late" to hire until they are sure the employee is needed long term. During periods of growth, this means that companies are understaffed, and the existing employees have to working harder until its 100% clear the org simply needs more people. From my experience, it takes several months of consistent production overtime before management decides the short term spurt in orders isn't a one-off fluke and actually indicates long term business growth. Only then are new positions created, as the company reasonably believes these people are needed long term.
On the otherside, when it's time to fire, the signs are present for a while that there's been a downturn in business. But companies don't want to fire right away (due to employee morale, reasons above). They will discuss internally at the highest levels whether or not attrition is necessary, can it be avoided etc. Is this just a temporary drop in sales, or is this part of a longer term decline? Until a decision has been made, discussing this with rank and file just creates job anxiety, as no one knows what's going to happen. Once the decision has been made, it's typically executed quickly (that's why they're called executives).
There's a reason that parents don't discuss their problems with their children. Until a decision has been made to divorce, Mom and Dad typically don't tell the kids that they're having problems and might get a divorce. It just created unnecessary anxiety.
So you only hire if you think you can keep them. And you only fire as a last resort. This means that sometimes you're short-staffed and it's necessary for people to work overtime, and other times you've got too many people and you must right size to remain profitable (stay in business).
> Your second sentence even provides a perfect scenario around exactly the kind of randomness that comes into play
Sure, it's never gotten 100% right. There's randomness in everyone's day to day lives. This is why the management layer is so important, it's their job to get it right as much as possible. Every time you get it wrong you're potentially damaging the company.
We can't avoid randomness. Everyone takes a chance stepping outside their front door in the morning and driving to/from work. Companies deal with randomness as best they can, just like we do in our day to day lives. This is reality we're dealing with, not theory.
> High performer but working on a product the company has decided to de-prioritize? Bye.
Yes. If a company isn't making money on a product they have to cut the product. So what to do with the team?
Many times high performers are "found" positions in the company, as the company recognizes their talent is hard to come by. This is easily done when one side of the business needs people, while the other needs to be downsized.
But if the company is oversized in all departments, there's no place for the high performing talent to go. Its not fair to fire a "good performer on a successful product" just to have a position open for the high performer. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not, but guaranteed someone is hurt every time.
We've lost some talented people, in much needed positions, and been unable (due to hiring freeze) to hire a replacement or greatly increase compensation to get them to stay. As much as you want to keep talent, sometimes it's just impossible.
I've nearly always found it to be the case that high performing talent quickly lands on their feet. They are in demand, even if their former company can't use them. I'm hearing stories right now that talented people are getting jobs fast in spite of the recession and rounds of layoffs.
Lastly, personal agency is also involved here. Any job you take comes with risk. Everyone, talented or not, should weight the risks of the position being offered against the benefits being offered. A high paying job offer at disruptive new company may not actually be better than the lower paying job offered by stable company. Being a high performer doesn't guarantee job security, just makes it much more likely.
I think this upside-down view of diversity being located in individuals is really common though, which is one of the problems with tech DEI initiatives. But you get much more use out of it the other way around.
Right, the term has no inherent abstract usefulness, it must be defined in each specific case. You can assess diversity of a group on a certain axis, but not generic "diversity" without defining it.
But you're still thinking of it as something possessed by an individual and that's making it hard to see the value. Adding a specific person may increase the diversity of the team on a certain axis, but that's a trait of the team not that person.
> as that is the only way to really make it fair in the long run.
I don't think this is wrong, but the way you state it makes me think there are several assumptions under it that are worth prodding at. Like, is fairness the goal? To whom? only the members of the team being discussed, or all potential candidates, or society as a whole, or what? Or, what is "performance?" and defined by whom? If a member of the team underperforms their peers on technical assessments but, for example, speaks an uncommon language that gives them access to and business-valuable insight into their users, is that performance? These are judgements that need to be made, not objective facts that can be derived from the world.
I don't know of anyone seriously proposing that "diversity" be the sole deciding factor in a hiring or firing. But that assessing the overall diversity of a team on certain axes can surely be one of several things weighed when making these decisions, along with things like tenure, performance, communication skills, morale, etc.
To be honest, the context doesn't really help much.
A job that's immune to layoffs, sign me up! /s
Seriously however, it seems to me that DEI positions are mainly about virtue signaling. The positions certainly don't have anything to do with a companies core competencies or products (you know, their actual business). So it's pure overhead. Wasn't this stuff traditionally handled by HR? As other's have pointed out, there are already laws on the books that must be followed, and plenty of precedent showing large $$$ payouts when the rules aren't being followed.
If/when jobs like this become mandatory, then a new bureaucracy will emerge and spread like a cancer, the overhead hanging like a millstone around a companies ability to stay competitive. You're seeing this happen on universities, where the staff/student ratio continues to grow, raising tuition and reducing the value of the education. I worry about the future competitive value American companies will bring to the global economy.
> Gender diversity is correlated with both profitability and value creation. In our 2017 data set, we found a positive correlation between gender diversity on executive teams and both our measures of financial performance: top-quartile companies on executive-level gender diversity worldwide had a 21 percent likelihood of outperforming their fourth-quartile industry peers on EBIT margin, and they also had a 27 percent likelihood of outperforming fourth-quartile peers on longer-term value creation, as measured using an economic-profit (EP) margin (Exhibit 2).
> Top-team ethnic and cultural diversity is correlated with profitability. In our 2017 data set, we looked at racial and cultural diversity in six countries where the definition of ethnic diversity was consistent and our data were reliable.1 As in 2014, we found that companies with the most ethnically diverse executive teams—not only with respect to absolute representation but also of variety or mix of ethnicities2 —are 33 percent more likely to outperform their peers on profitability. That’s comparable to the 35 percent outperformance reported in 2014, with both figures being statistically significant (Exhibit 4).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning
Not saying its true, not saying its not.
> Inclusion programs often trigger an “us versus them” mindset.
> Although diversity and inclusion training is prevalent in corporate America, its impact is inconsistent. According to the evidence, sometimes the programs even have the opposite effect of what they intend.
> One 2016 study of 830 mandatory diversity training programs found that they often triggered a strong backlash against the ideas they promoted. “Trainers tell us that people often respond to compulsory courses with anger and resistance,” wrote sociologists Frank Dobbin and Alexandra Kalev in the Harvard Business Review, “and many participants actually report more animosity toward other groups afterward.”
If diversity actually increases profits (and not is merely correlated with it) then that should be a no-brainer.
1. Companies are not known to value monetary gains above all else.
2. Even those that do often concentrate and very short term gains over things that would make them more money in the long run.
Correlation does not imply causality, as you know. Possibly the more successful companies face more social pressure to improve their DEI numbers, whereas no social justice advocates push on the ones who are struggling. Sampling matters.
McKinsey is merely picking some data that supports their case. If you actually want to show something, do a longitudinal study: first of all, pick cohorts that match up in most other respects, then compare their relative performance within the cohort after increasing their DEI numbers. Or not doing so.
I agree these study parameters would yield much better data. The construction of such a study would probably prove challenging.
Not off to a great start, so a few questions:
1. What's the timeline look like for most companies? Were they successful before, after, or all during diversity efforts? At some point it became the socially desired thing to do, so timing matters.
2. Which countries were surveyed? What are the current diversity/cultural influences there?
3. This seems specific to executive teams - is there any more data on regular staff?
4. The data seems a little old, is there newer data?
5. Were the diversity efforts intentional or organic? Meaning: did the company realize it needed more diversity or just by nature of hiring did the successful companies become diverse?
It's important to understand the nuance in studies like this, and the linked article doesn't seem to provide that.
In a situation like that, would mandating more female executives push the culture towards more worklife balance or preferentially promote women who care less than average about worklife balance? Absent hard data my money would be on the latter.
If it actually increased profitability then we wouldn't need these programs and social coercion, shaming, etc. Companies would be scrambling to hire the magic People of Diversity that bring in the profits.
For instance, maybe companies with a really relatable mission or an open mind at the executive level also tend to attract diverse candidates. Those former factors would explain both the success and the diversity.
If there were a study looking at companies with poor performance metrics who turned things around by pumping their diversity numbers, I'd be really interested in seeing that (since it'd show a nice casual link.)
Without that, it seems plausible that successful companies are the ones able to engage in DEI efforts, even if they don't improve performance, or that minority candidates prefer working at successful companies.
But it seems far more likely the reverse is true. In a world where corporations want to demonstrate they are diverse and inclusive, and systemic forces are limiting the number of minorities who make it up the career ladders into leadership positions, minority leadership becomes a scarce commodity. The more profitable and successful a company, the more attractive the company and the more money they have to offer the limited number of minority executives for compensation, increasing the likelihood said executives join their teams.
> minority leadership becomes a scarce commodity
... one capable of attracting very good offers. An unsuccessful company is unlikely to be able to hire them.
Also the chess.com emoticon selector. If you don't pay you have to be OK with no emoticon or 2 icons which are Pro Ukraine. If you pay you have access to all emoticons.
Not quite sure exactly what the message is there, but doesn't really go well with freedom of choice. Especially when you have a platform which has a huge minor audience. I guess chess.com has bigger problems not that their site is suffering under extreme load due to poor planning.
Once the numbers (quotas, designated equity proportions, etc.) are reached, are DEI administrators then thinned out ? I'm talking a future, theoretical situation. In order to answer 'what happens when the goals are met' we first need to establish what are the goals and then see if they are transparent from the outset or loose and forever adapting. If not then the risk is a future self-important bureaucratic arm that exists for its own sake.
The answer can't possibly be, "they will forever be needed due to the racist and sexist nature of society" because now we're saying something interesting and possibly self-contradictory about our natures (we're not supposed to have natures, we're products of society/class/culture, is the foundational belief of the DEI ideas as they must be).
Therefore an end goal is a must-have.
I agree, but this will never ever happen, which is one of the many reasons these programs are unethical money pits that only benefit people who make a career out of DEI.
If you're head of DEI at a fortune 500, you're likely getting at least $500k a year in total compensation; more at some companies. Given that reality, it's only human nature to convince yourself that doing that particular job in perpetuity is massively important.
Here's what will happen instead. If they start to hit their initial goals, they'll just move the goalposts. Mostly likely these will be in the form of slicing and dicing workers into ever smaller groups - you can always find a group within a group.
Let's say that the DEI group at $BIG_CORP gets it so that workers from group X are represented at the company in a way that matches the proportion of the overall population they comprise. The folks in DEI will just say, "Oh no, we've made great progress with group X, but we don't have enough people in group X from the LGBTQ community; more work must be done, more money must be spent!" So, they get the LBGTQ numbers up for group X. "Oh, No!", they say, "We don't have enough people from group X who are disabled; more work must be done, more money must be spent!".
The point is not, and never was, to accomplish a goal. It's to make it appear that progress toward a vaguely-state goal of diversity is continuously being made, while also making sure never to actually accomplish the goal; less the make-work jobs and juicy consulting contracts dry up.
And honestly, I can't blame these folks. If I had a half million dollar a year job, I'd also find a way to keep it as long as I possibly could.
So the "hard" jobs are actually facing larger layoff waves than the DEI jobs.
> Listings for DEI roles were down 19% last year — a bigger decline than legal or general human resources jobs saw, according to findings from Textio, which helps companies create unbiased job ads. Only software engineering and data science jobs saw larger declines, at 24% and 27%, respectively.
I'm guessing these were listings Textio was paid to analyze, so there are multiple possible causes for the decline.
Here, after every government change, public worker positions and state universities tend to get filled with by the winner with their incompetent cronies. But the private sector is relatively safe. When you bring in DEI positions you're just creating new opening for the politicians/activists to exert control over the private sector as well.
But does it disgust you when companies discriminate based on age/gender/sexual orientation/race/disability/religion/etc?
Should corporations be accountable to society in some way, or do we trust them to "do the right thing"?
Seems to make sense that DEI departments could fill a similar role - make sure the company is in compliance with the law and then look for ways to go above and beyond it that benefit the company’s position in the market for talent.
I can hire all of x gender, x race, x religion, etc. for my 1000 employee work force. You won't legally be able to nail any kind of discrimination on me so long as I take care as to not leave evidence of it.
In this instance, did discrimination occur? Did the law do its job adequately?
Sexual harassment is illegal, yet companies still do sexual harassment training and HR in theory can help protect employees from sexual harassment and take action on harassers (if only to protect the company).
What a ridiculous statement. It is of course the responsibility of people inside company to ensure that it doesn't perpetuate illegal discriminatory activities.
The real question is there any evidence of DEI departments effecting change beyond what was already supplied previously. Anecdotally I haven't seen it, nor have I seen any studies backing it up (please supply those if you know of them). The only thing I have seen come of it is additional training every year which can be basically summed up to "play nice with others".
You see, what's great about the private sector is that any company that engages in discrimination only harms itself and drives potential talent to their competitors. That's why I love working for private companies, no matter who you are or where you come from if you're making them a lot of money they'll treat you like royalty. I've never seen an environment more egalitarian than a private company.
Those people relationships are affected by race gender etc. You really have NEVER seen someone get on a great project because they're better connected, even if they are a worse engineer than someone who doesn't fit in as well?
This strawman. you jumping to big conclusion by asking aggressive question.
im minority person. dei things me saw at big tech massive grift. usually run by people without real skill..people who simply there for crusade if they personal social beliefs.
in one org person responsible for daily long email on trans issues. not single trans person on team or on org. so let maybe discuss ukraine..libya..palestine?
at another big tech company..small army of engineers to scan entire company code base and flag word like “whitelist”. Highly paid engineer and managers $300k+ comp to change “whitelist” to “allowlist”
Me minority. none of this nonsense helpful. it actually insult. most stuff corporate entitlement program to create fake job for people without useful skill. pandering to often white people with savior complex who seem to hate other white people.
Plus, allowlist and denylist is simply easier to understand.
I agree that if your entire job is coming up with this kind of stuff, that's a bit ridiculous. But I don't really see anything wrong with a few engineers spending a few hours a month to push company discourse in a more egalitarian direction.
But modern America has a modern lens, not a 600BC lens. Why ignore that?
If you want to hire minorities, open an office in their community, require them to work on site, and hire completely unskilled people with no experience so you can train them. This would require actual investment, not token 'DIE' positions, so corporations don't do it.
The whole point wasn't to control thought, or stamp out disloyalty it was merely to make each person feel like they were alone and isolated.
I have to wonder how much of some of these culture war issues have been brought into corporations in order to prevent the workers from organizing.
Wait til you find out how promotions work. It’s one heck of an affair!
My biggest fear is that if we try to sweep the pipeline problem under the rug, we're not going to fix it. I do have a potential solution, but I think it's a tough sell...
So if you were e.g. recruiting for SWE roles at an HBCU presumably there are hundreds of CS students there. Are you saying none were qualified? If so isn't that a problem with education/preparation?
Yes, in other words... a pipeline problem.
When you have bars set in fields where outcomes are tangible (STEM), you cannot improve the situation by lowering the bar, you must improve the situation by improving the populace so more can get over the bar. This is a lot harder to do, and not possible to do in a way that juices the numbers, so very few people and institutions bother to do it.
The solution I hinted at is to actually double-down on standardized testing. I taught test prep to HS'ers in poor schools in California in the past and there are a couple of things I noticed:
1. For kids who cared, I could raise their score dramatically. The College Board disputes this is possible, but I could do this pretty consistently over the course of a year. There were a non-trivial number of kids who didn't care and the results didn't apply to them at all.
2. In the course of my prep I drastically increased learning. And this isn't a direct corollary to (1), and actually somewhat surprised me. The same students I taught saw their course grades go up and felt more confident in school. I think in part because I was a relentless, but effective teacher (if I say so myself).
Oddly, this is going the opposite direction from what people are proposing now and that worries me. People underestimate how well some of these students can do. It's like when they used to say Blacks didn't have the intellect to play QB. We didn't dumb down the position. But because of how important the role is, and how meritocratic sports is, Black kids figured it out. Give them a chance to figure this out, with some of the right incentives. (Side note, I do think the College Board also makes this harder and there is at least some anecdotal data that they have biased the test against underrepresented minorities -- but even with all that, I'm still optimistic).
Regarding my original comment -- it wasn't an entry level SWE role. I'd be open to hiring someone out of college, but you rarely find ones with the level of embedded systems background we needed.
I'm pretty sure the casual racism and misogyny she displayed are par for the course among genuine believers in the EDI space, most just being better at dancing around it than she was. The idea that 'whatever those people are doing' isn't harmed by lowering the bar is probably a less obvious component of how the ideology perpetuates itself.
Opinion piece by leftist Karen
Former editor at Woman's Day
All pronouns welcome[0]
"Here's your chance to nominate queer women and non binary people who are making an impact"[1]
Every time. It's all so tiresome.
[0] https://twitter.com/KathleenEDavis
[1] https://twitter.com/KathleenEDavis/status/161362741211319911...
There are successful diversity hiring programs and proactive management, but you don't hear about those as much because outrage sells. Hell, people from my background were underrepresented when I was working on the Hill and I wished there was more DEI in staffer hiring.
The bigger issue in my honest opinion is how companies treat HR as an amaphorous cost center. It's the same as non-tech companies that underinvest and treat IT like shit because they don't understand the function.
The lack of mutual respect across different domains and roles here on HN is jarring and honestly very toxic. This is sophmoric commentary that I honestly could simulate with a Naive Bayes language model (not even ChatGPT).
Hell, I'm not even denying that hiring abuses under the guise of DEI occur, but to downvote a call for constructive discussion is just ridiculous