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Comment by TacticalCoder | Hacker News Reader

> It’s crazy how far ahead Apple is getting in the laptop game with these new chips.

For people who don't mind an ultra-brittle screen or who don't mind paying an extra 20% Apple tax to get their screen replaced when it breaks. Had a M1 Mac. Screen broke overnight. Meanwhile my LG Gram feels way more sturdy and hasn't let me down in years. M1 Mac lasted about 13 months.

Not happy at all with Apple asking 680 EUR to replace the screen on a M1 Mac I paid... 1 000 EUR. 68% after 13 months to replace their shitty screen.

And to get what? Another brittle screen.

Sure, it looks nice. But my LG Gram wins, hands down: I can count on that thing.

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> For people who don't mind an ultra-brittle screen

Have had an M1 Macbook Pro for 2 years now. Dropped it several times from various heights up to 4ft. Dropped books on it a couple of times. Screen still intact. "ultra-brittle" is nonsense.

(And in the 10 years I've owned Macbooks, never have I broken a screen despite dropping, etc.)

The M1 Air I'm typing on has been shot down from desk to floor due to a golden retriever tripping on the charging cable running after a ball. It flew about 2m horizontally, and the height of the desk vertically. It has a very noticeable bump on the corner of the case. The screen though, is good as new.

Since you say EUR, I suppose you're in Europe. Which means that your broken screen should be covered by the EU rules mandating at least two years guarantee:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...

" You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund. "

> For people who don't mind an ultra-brittle screen or who don't mind paying an extra 20% Apple tax to get their screen replaced when it breaks. Had a M1 Mac. Screen broke overnight. Meanwhile my LG Gram feels way more sturdy and hasn't let me down in years. M1 Mac lasted about 13 months.

Not being pithy but is this a common issue? It's not one I've previously heard people complain about, the screen on my current gen and prior (2012?) MacBook pros but seem very solid so I'm surprised that this is considered a weak point...

That’s unfortunate you had a terrible experience but in all fairness, you’re one data point. You can simply google “most reliable laptop” and see the that Apple is consistently ranked #1.

As for my own single data point, I have the following in my house and none have had any issues whatsoever: - 2012 inch MacBook Pro - 2017 12 inch MacBook - 2019 MacBook Pro - 2021 Intel MacBook Pro (Company machine) - 2021 M1 MacBook Pro

More anectdata. 16" M1 MBP user here (first batch).

No problems with the screen. Travels with me literally everywhere I can take my backpack. No case.

Are you using your laptop as a frisbee?

As far as Apple tax, you pay for quality tools. In life you get what you pay for.

They're not even that expensive as tools go, either.

My Festool Domino was $1200. It makes one particular hole in a piece of wood. It's very, very good at it--but it doesn't replace my tablesaw ($600) or my bandsaw ($700) or my tracksaw ($400) or my drill/driver ($300) or my jointer ($600) or my planer ($900) or my drill press ($500) or or or--and I did not buy particular spendy variants of any of those, except the Domino. (I could've easily spent $2000 on a tablesaw alone.)

Contrast this to a $2500 Macbook Pro, which is a future computer from beyond the moon that can do a ton of revenue-relative work without even kicking on its fans, and can watch Netflix besides. It is also small; it provides all those benefits in a thing that can fit on your coffee table, without the ongoing costs of storing actually expensive tools (edit: as mentioned downthread, for me that's about $550 a month based on my mortgage's square footage calculation).

Computer people complaining about computer costs when they're paid six figures for what they do with them is...it really needs to stop. It's silly.

That's an interesting example. Festool are definitely premium equipment.

I (try to) buy quality tools but I can't really justify Festool for my bodgy DIY attempts. I can barely justify the Bosch Professional tools I tend to buy instead.

My friend, an actual professional who fitted our kitchen, exclusively uses Festool. He can definitely justify it and swears by it. He says it's quicker and the tools suck up more dust which means less time cleaning up and less exposure to lung disease.

He'd never consider buying a MacBook Pro though as he thinks Apple is for poseurs ...like me.

I'm a professional software engineer and not a hairy arsed builder[1].

I spend roughly 8-10 hours a day on a laptop and I want a nice one. I'm probably going to switch from my Dell running Linux back to a MacBook Pro.

(That's for the shiny logo to make me look cool in coffee shops and not the battery life, performance or general attention to detail obvs.)

With regard to useful lifespan, I have an MBP from 2013 that's still going strong even if the OS updates from Apple are getting sparser.

1. This, apparently, is the vernacular used by friends in the trades to describe a "proper" tradesman. You live and learn I guess. ;)

I only bought a Festool Domino because there's literally no other tool that does that. It's amazing; the thing is like cheating for panels or for trim. Everything else is a mix-and-match. My tracksaw is a Makita (uses the same rails as a Festool, feels fine, isn't Quite As Nice). My shop battery tools are DeWalt, my house battery tools are Skil 12V (which are really nice for the price, even if they're not as small as other 12V brands). My tablesaw is a Delta (also sold as a Ridgid). Though I've thought a lot about going to Festool for a hand sander, mine are...Bosch. ;)

I do agree with your friend about dust collection though, which is why I use the tools I do use. Dust is the absolute worst, and it is worth spending money to solve that problem IMO. The thing about Festool (and also Fein)is that it's good at solving those problems portably, and in that light they're not that expensive. If you aren't a contractor and don't need to bring your entire work life around in a Systainer stack though, something like my 1.5HP Harbor Freight dust collector and a simple dust cyclone can get you very far by themselves. (They are, however, loud.)

I've also gotten into 3D printing I've been building better dust accessories for my other stuff. (For example I've got a set of 4" dust couplers in development that are a WIP but are noticeably better than any of the options I have found online for a reasonable price and that work in a home shop without ducting.)

Lol the funny thing is, I was going to bring up all the hardware tools in my garage as examples, but I figured most people here wouldn't care/get it.

Computer-toucher-to-woodworker pipeline is real.

Nothing relieves a day at the keyboard like the smell of sawdust.

Those tools will last forever so that money makes sense. Apples engages in planned obsolescence so the cost isnt the same. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate

Consider how expensive it is to store and operate those tools. Square footage isn't cheap most places; my wood shop probably costs me about $550 a month in used space! In that light, refreshing a laptop every five years or so (on the low end for my usual cadence for Macs; both my 2016 and 2011 Macbook Pros are still in use for dedicated tasks) amortizes out a lot more pleasantly.

Consider how much space all the thrown out Apple products take up in landfills.

I haven't thrown out a MacBook in my entire life. All three are all still in use, and two of those were bought used in the first place. I also have three iPads, going back to the iPad 2, that are still in use. I cannot say that about the Android devices I have had in a similar length of time such as the Nexus 10's putrefying back case that makes it unpleasant to touch. And while I have the PC cases I have had for a decade, the rest of both of them have said hello to Theseus at least twice.

So...what, then?

Those tools will last forever, if you don't use them.

But if you do they will wear out.

You maintain them because theyre made to be maintained.

It's pretty hard to wear out silicon. That's why the batteries are glued in and they're made out of glass. To encourage them to artificially wear them out.

... Huh. That is one Apple complaint I've never heard. Had various Mac laptops since 2004 and never seen a screen crack (on my own one; for what it's worth, I do know two separate people whose Apple laptop's screen cracked because their _cat bit it_, but I assume that can happen for any laptop with a sufficiently weird cat).

And, really, a screen is a screen is a screen; any laptop screen is likely to be about as fragile as any other.

The problem isn't that the screen breaks; the problem are their ridiculous repair prices.

The repair prices are artificially inflated because there is no competition and they don't sell spares, and I think they keep them high on purpose to push their insurance product Apple Care. (Which is a great business for Apple, because the repairs are much cheaper for them than what they charge uninsured customers)

My workplace is all MacBooks, and a lot of employees have gone over to M1s, and I have not heard of a single case of this happening.

For what it's worth my Macbook Retina has survived mostly unscathed since 2012 with heavy daily use. Two battery replacements, fraying charging cables and some worn out key faces, that's about it. Then again, I'm sure later MacBooks might be less sturdy?

I’ve probably the same model as you - and yeah, apart from two battery swaps and a new power brick, and the occasional fur removal (cats), it’s a trooper. I’ve dropped it plenty, so it has aerodynamic corners, but it has never let me down. Battery swaps are far easier than ifixit etc. describe - I just used fishing line and a couple of sticks as handles to cut through the glue without having to remove anything but the bottom case.

That said, I have heard frequent gripes from people with newer models about things like hinges, ports coming loose, and keyboards failing - I mean, from my experience with their software quality over the years, I wouldn’t be surprised if their hardware design, while having plenty of great new tech, lacks attention to detail.

My toddler would stomp and throw my old MBP 2015 and I wouldn’t worry a bit since I know this model is durable enough. I can’t say the same with the latest models.

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